Coupe quattro 20vT? or v8 4.2L? conversion # 2

[Josh-stateside]

Hi guys.

I bought another coupe quattro today. I need to get it home 130 miles from where it's located and then go through it before I make the final ok on whether or not I want to build it. I bought it, and never even test drove it or ran it. The price worked and the problems were suspect where I didn't even want to start it or drive it. Worse case senario I have a parts car. Best case senario I will build it to S2 spec or possibly even a 4.2L v8.

Expect alot of pictures and everything else from me. I am going to try to document it as much as possible because I plan on selling either this one or the one I am currently building. It has 214,000 miles on it but the body is very clean. I don't want the milage to scare possible buyers. I am going to go through everything.

For all the american/ canadians reading this... If I build it I will definatelly be selling one of the two cars.

I am expecting to put at least a years work into this car. Weekends and week nights.

I can't ignore the fact that I been reading schematics and bently manuals for the past 4 years. I can't ignore the fact I like building cars as a hobby. I can't ignore the fact that this keeps me out the bar. However I have a funny feeling this car will definately have me drinking. Not to mention to drive me an my girl friends relationship to hell.

I run a construction business with my father and my time is not allways applicable for making progress. However I have a couple people who are going to help me with working on the car.

If this becomes a definate project for me I don't plan on working on it till another month at least. I need a month to finish the one I started.

Since I plan on going through everything you can make requests for "Do it yourself instructions" and I will attempt to find time to make things work their way onto the net.

I am somewhat tempted to ripp it apart to bare shell but I don't know yet. It's pearl white and probably going to get a full respray to something like alpine white or nibus gray.

Sad looking stock american coupe quattro with it's nasty two piece bumpers.



Hopefully will look something like this when its done:






Cheers to my insanity
Josh

[Josh-stateside]

Hi guys.

I can't help to visualize a 20vt or a v8 in the boot of a coupe quattro. But then I think that the weight distribution is only 52/48. Which all considering is not so bad.

I still find myself thinking about it alot. I even have taken measurements to see if the motors will fit. Which really doesn't mean **** in this kind of swap since alot of it's custom.

But installing the rear subframe setup on the front shouldn't be so bad. Installing the gas tank in the front should be easy since I would use the v6 radiator setup. Since it's a coupe quattro and the battery is in the engine bay I allready have that working as a positive. Brake line bending: well thats easy. Coolant pipes and heater core: Simple enough. Electronics: Well I thought about it and I would use a dual aux relay, fuse box setup and keep the ecu in the boot too of course. Exhaust: If it's a 5 cylinder I would mount the turbo backwards, If it's a v8 I would mount the exhaust manifolds on backwards. Fuel lines: easy to take care off. Engine mounts: Well thats the tricky one. I would most likely have to install the motor from underneath. I would consider using the 93+ engine mounts found on v6 audi 90s b4s which are screwed to the frame rails. As you can see I am leaving the hard stuff for last. Clutch setup. I haven't visualize it yet, but I probably can source the stuff I need from a porsche. I can source the shift linkage stuff from a boxster. I remember that because of a article I read in European car which stated that the boxster uses the same tranny as some from wheel drive audis. Snub mount: well thats totally custom and hard to visualize right now. Upper strut mount to tighten up the rear end? Depends on how ridged the body will need to be when I cut the rear end out... but I could buy the strut mount tops found on the front of the s2s and v6 audis b4s and weld it to the rear.

The questions:

Won't know for a while but whats involved with attaching the subframes? They might be reversable since the control arms are the same front and rear.

Engine mounts. How much of a bitch is this going to be?

IF it's a 5 cylinder turbo motor do I run an intercooler or should I consider a water intercooler.

*** end happy? Well I can solve that with the fact that the front and rear sway bars are interchangeable

Engine management? Well I am considering motronic but 034efi could be really nice. If I were to do this I would first attempt installing the 7a 20v naturally aspirated motor in the boot. Get it running and then figure out what I want to do. Javad's turboed 7a is very sweet and the fact that he never had to deal with europe is just icing on the cake. I hate to admit it but I am not a fan of dealing with customs.

The body:

Tranny clearance in the boot? The fact that it's quattro means it allready has alot of postive notes. Depending on how much custom fabrication we would have to do it would be a deciding factor to some degree with the body. But the way the rear seat frame is setup make be believe it would work as a perfect firewall if... IF.. that is the motor didn't go past it but I believe it should just fit inside the rear seat frame.

Throttle cable. Well that would be a bit tricky but I could get it to work.

Brakes? Well I would install 5/112 hubs and install S8 calipers in the rear with vented rotors. That and big red up front should do the trick.

Installing a v8 in the boot seems alot easier than a 20vT( but if things were easy I wouldn't consider putting a motor in the boot). Thats my only concern. I could get a v8 reasonably cheap these days but to do all this work and put a v8 and use stock motronic would be absolutely stupid. If the motors going to be in the boot I want 400+hp. More like 500+. V8 with twin turbos and EFI would be sweet but gets more complicated. Options a many but I like to stay some what close to sanity. I say that the v8 would be the easier swap because it's a 4 cylinder bank?(is that the word) vs the 5cylinder. There would be alot more clearance in the boot where the tailights are located. At least as I visualize it in my mind there would be alot more clearance.

Opinions? Besides bragging rights and a rather fun and challenging project to keep my mind occupied. Well that and it would a kick *** ride on the track.

This would take a preity long time for me to get it on the road. Finding time from work is not easy. But now that I am very familar with b3s and b4s I believe I would be able to do the swap faster than it took me to do the Aby swap that I am working on.

The other postive note: Is the car.

It has 214,000 miles on it. It's not great. but it doesn't have any rust on the body. it matches my car year, color and interior. Worse case senario it's a parts car. From the begining worse case senario was parts car. I picked it up for $1500 us and I don't care if it all goes wrong. I also don't care how long it actually takes to get it on the road to be honest. I have a ford truck for work. I have my coupe and I have a potential shop now where I could work on this car.

Is it complete insanity? Some, if not most of you I suspect will say so. But What are the postives of doing this?

Thanks
Josh

[Josh-stateside]

How would I get the wheels to spin the opositive direction?

Porsche tranny and just rear wheel drive?
That would solve the front subframe issuses. I wouldn't need to put a diff in the front. But would certainly take away from the idea of "quattro" however would still be quite fun.




Quick pchop.

Looks cool.



CHeers
josh

[quattro4Life]

if you want rear drive i would suggest making it mid engine rather than rear engine. build a custom firewall behind the front seats, and if youre lucky youll still end up with a trunk. if you want to go quattro and want the wheels to spin the other direction, turn the differentials upside down (not sure if/how this would work inside the trans. housing, but the stock rear diff can just be flipped over, although custom mounts would then be necessary - not a huge obstacle). however, putting a quattro system into the rear would be wasteful IMO. you dont want to send 50% of the power to the front wheels in a mid/rear engine car. the RS4 torsen diff. adjusts up to an 80/20 torque split, rather than the 67/33 split on other torsens. it still rests at 50/50 bias, though. if you want to stay quattro i would consider that differential a necessity, since your front wheels will be very likely to spin if you have a pretty powerful engine.

want to keep power steering/brakes? all custom lines.

cooling? gonna keep the radiator up front? more custom lines. and have fun flushing/bleeding/filling that system. move it to the rear? make sure youve got sufficient airflow to, and away from the radiator. finding a decent space with proper airflow to put a large air-air intercooler in a mid/rear engine car (especially one not originally designed as mid/rear engine) can be difficult. air-water would fit the situation better. if you go v8 with 2 small turbos, you may find enough space for a pair of small intercoolers, with some air ducts coming in from the sides.

subframe/motor/transmission/differential mounts: hope you (or a close friend) are a good welder, or have deep pockets. paying someone to do that kind of fab work will run up your bills quicker than expected. not to mention there is bound to be lots of test-fits, then back to fabrication until you get everything worked out perfectly. most if not all of these will be custom work. not to mention proper chassis bracing, although a full roll cage will help out a lot there.

[quattro4Life]

oh....and you also may want to consider making the rear bodywork removeable (similar to removing the front end), or else youll never be able to do proper maintenance without dropping the engine every time

-b

[Josh-stateside]

want to keep power steering/brakes? all custom lines.

To the above statement^^^

I would just use an electric power steering pump like in javad's car. Brake line bending is easy.

Your insite helped enlighten some subjects for me.
Still going to think about it nevertheless


Thanks
Josh

[Josh-stateside]

I just remembered the golf II with the 20v in the boot.



As I start to think about this the only real advantage of putting the motor in the boot would be to put in a lighter car.

Seems like this coupe is going to be keeping the motor in the front.

Maybe if my name was hans and I had a company called dalback, then I would consider doing this... but my name is Josh.. and I certainly don't own a golf Iv with a 20vt

balls.. Could of been fun.

[Josh-stateside]

I've decided to look into this furthure.

I got this weird feeling at some point I am going to build an audi coupe quattro rear wheel drive in my life time. Might not be the coupe I just bought, might be another but seems like I am going to want to do it.

If I go with a mid engine setup I am probably going to use a 5cylinder motor. If I go with a rear engine setup I am probably going to use a v8 motor.

If I go mid engine I am going to use the front wheel drive audi transmission with a quaife and use a boxster cable shift linkage.

If I go rear engine setup I need to figure out which tranny I am going to use or how to convert a front engine tranny to spin the oposite direction.

If anything this will keep my mind occupied for a while.



Cheers
Josh

[NoNonsense]

all i gotta say is: AWESOME!

where did you find a coupe at that price...i've been looking for a high miles coupe with clean body to have some fun with...and the price!...the price is awesome!

[Josh-stateside]

http://www.audipassion.com/univers_a...ollo/index.php

MTM apollo?

[Josh-stateside]

Inspiration?

I even like the orange paint and black top

[Josh-stateside]

[Josh-stateside]

Doctors are reading this thread learning how a crazy person's mind works

Eh... To be.. great. .. is to be misunderstood.

I am learning nevertheless and there is nothing wrong with that at all.

[Stick Insect]

How would I get the wheels to spin the opositive direction?

Porsche tranny and just rear wheel drive?
Cheers
josh

There is a car called an Ultima made in England. it uses a big Americam V8 , chevy etc and uses a g50 porsche transmission turned upside down, this makes the wheels go the right way.

http://www.ultimasports.co.uk/

Get one of these with an Audi V8 in it and put the coupe body shell on top

You know you want one

David

[Josh-stateside]

I am leaning towards an 01E tranny from the porsche 968. It will mate right up to an audi tranny housing I believe.

Should do the trick. People mentioned flipping the diffs to get it running correctly . I need to look into this furthure.

Depending on how difficult it is to get a tranny setup will make me decide some what if I want to do a mid engine swap or not.

I believe a mid engine swap is more complicated for me because I would need to do more body modications. I want to keep the car in my garage as much as possible but I am looking into both options.

Cheers
Josh