Hacking the Motronic ECU (Audi RS2)

[porkkis]

Yes you're missing the point that the porsche system uses VAF sensor (flap type air flow, not air mass!).
Flow sensor ecus have the transfer function...

[cid]

I thought it had one, because other cars do have MAF tables, just open one of the bins that came with Tuner Pro and the XDF file and you goona see it. It is not a motronic unit tough, but I dont see why motornic wouldnt use one. Otherwise, would be a pain in the *** even for the factory tuners to tune an engine everytime the MAF is changed they would have to change the whole fuel curve.

Unless you are 100% sure about, that means you know the motronic unit as deep as possible. Otherwise I still think there is a MAF table. That is why I think there must be a MAF table

http://motronic944.com/amtf.htm

http://motronic944.com/famvtp.htm

This was taken from another forum:

"MAF transfer is what I'm doing at the moment.This is a conversion chart to convert a voltage from the MAF to hex value the the computer understands.By manipulating this table we should be able to change the MAF to whatever size we want.I just need to figure out how the ecu uses these values in the conversion for load.

Load is a calculation of what the car will need to keep the motor running at stoich.To do this the ecu needs a MAF voltage calibration(see above)engine rpm and injector size.This calculation will then be converted to a theoretical point that will keep the car at stoich(14.7 a/f ratio).

The rest of the tables fine tune everything from O2 voltage to battery voltage ac on and so on.These are set up to betweakable for every condition known to man.

If the proper load conversion was done for the larger MAF and larger injectors then you should only need fine tuning on a few of the tables because most of the other operating conditions will still be the same.

If you start jacking the fuel tables to make up for larger injectors(which is what most tuners are doing)you have to retune every condition that was factory tuned.This is not desirable and we would like to avoid this."

Another point, you look at the pdf file below of an Bosch Hot air mass system you gonna see that it has a similar curve the one a pont it out.

http://modshack.info/images/sensors_airmass.pdf

Maybe I am missing something here.

[porkkis]

There is no such MAF table. Sorry.

[cid]

An emulator with trace is needed for sure. But the big question is? Finding the maps are the easiest, but are they fuel, ignition, egr, fan switch and others. If anyone has open my xdf in Tuner Pro will see a lot of maps I have found, most of them I dont know what they are used for. Besides you have to know what the number in the table means. You can look the number in decimal knowing is fuel, but a x% increase in that decimal format number will it bring x% in fuel increment, maybe not. The same is true for ignition.

If you have VAG connect to the ECU and plus an emulator you could change the ignition table easier as you would know how many degrees you have changed.

I wish I could understand assembler easier, I have disassemble the RS2 bin file using IDA PRo, but well that has no meaning to me. I would first have to learn disassembler first.

By the way, I am also working in the boost bin, but that one works a little diferent from the fuel and ignition bin. Have a look at the www.rs2.ch, under tuning you gonna see a few maps that we have spoken here. The table name is in german, but at least you know what they are for.

My big guess is that decimal format 55 and 56 are correction tables for ECT and/or IAT there are lot of them under 1D (linear map) format. I am trying to figure it out. Also a good map is the MAF table, as this would help when someone changes the MAF for another one, you can just change that furve to suit the new MAF and basically you wont have to correct many table afterwards, as you have said about injector size.

I think the MAF table could be under B04B - 15 x 1

[s2dude]

My bad...rpm is ok.
and Ostrich is not useless at all...
many people have had great successes with it.
And some people have had it successfully tracing....just not on all eproms/ECUs

[porkkis]

RPM stuff is correct.

Ostrich is useless as it does not have a trace.

[s2dude]

You're on a good mission here. I asked few years ago about this stuff and.. well I was attacked and flamed etc etc. That didn't stop me. Hopefully this thread doesn't end up that way.

Fuel and Ign main maps are quite straight forward. The rest are the pain as without doing a full disassemble you're not able to know where all the corrections are and how they are used. Changing injectors means you should be able to change all the fuel maps....

Converting the load axis to real world values is not interesting. The rpm stuff you wrote is correct.

Tommy mentioned the emulator. With real time emu you're able to see where data is read and those parts are the most interesting ones. Getting an emu is crucial if you plan to do more than just learn.

You will need to buy an emulator. + invest lots of time.good luck.

[s2dude]

info removed on request :mischeif:

[porkkis]

You're on a good mission here. I asked few years ago about this stuff and.. well I was attacked and flamed etc etc. That didn't stop me. Hopefully this thread doesn't end up that way.

Fuel and Ign main maps are quite straight forward. The rest are the pain as without doing a full disassemble you're not able to know where all the corrections are and how they are used. Changing injectors means you should be able to change all the fuel maps....

Converting the load axis to real world values is not interesting. The rpm stuff you wrote is correct.

Tommy mentioned the emulator. With real time emu you're able to see where data is read and those parts are the most interesting ones. Getting an emu is crucial if you plan to do more than just learn.

[cid]

The idea is to remap the original ECU, as you can keep trip computer, air con, and all other stuff that is controlled by the ECU, besides tune a main ignition/fuel map is not a big deal, but mapping cold start, enrichments and such is much more challenger and time consuming. With the original ECU all these maps are ready. So you just change the maps that is interest to you.

I am still trying to find out the temperature values that are in decimal format. I think once I realize the constants involved everything will be clear.

For example, some maps that are RPM dependent you can see the RPM axis going from 800 - 7000RPM, others from 500 - 2000RPM, so you can assume a map can the main one or maybe a cold startup map and so on.

[Jensk]

aah, sure. But installing one of those is something "everyone" can do

[Jaap]

Motronic

I know, but it has a interesting price.
So you don/t neet a epromburner and software like winols and also don't need simulation hard en software.
That was my idea

[Jensk]

Thats an full EMS, not a burner/emulator?

[Jaap]

Is this a good alternetif??

KMS

http://kms.vankronenburg.nl/

[S4turbo]

Does anyone know examples of emulator software/hardware and approximate cost for equipment that can be used on our S cars?