Aftermarket VS motronic management

[macspring]

Prj,

Thanks for reply.

Kind regards.

[aronmatic2]

Aftermarket ECU is for people who enjoy driving with a laptop in their car.

this is the best post in this thread

[Bram]

this is the best post in this thread

Aron directly grabs to beer and skips the .......

Sunday morning..........

[mouse]

I found one bit of informaton which could have more than entertainment value !!

And why can't Motronic run lean burn? I have been running lean burn - 16 AFR cruise for half a year now.

Do you definately need a WB sensor for this? or any other hardware?

I'd be happy to use less juice while crawling around in traffic on the daily commute..

[prj]

Do you definately need a WB sensor for this? or any other hardware?

I'd be happy to use less juice while crawling around in traffic on the daily commute..

No, you don't need anything for this except the MAF, which is already present.
The O2 sensor is not used on cruise anymore, that's all. The MAF is precise enough to have correct fuelling.

[mouse]

Interesting - I suppose the o2 sensor kicks in again at a certain load &/or throttle position?
Any issues with running way too lean if a MAF starts to fail? - as they inevitably do evetually.

[prj]

Interesting - I suppose the o2 sensor kicks in again at a certain load &/or throttle position?
Any issues with running way too lean if a MAF starts to fail? - as they inevitably do evetually.

Your car will be down on power, that's all. Lambda kicks in at idle and raised idle, so you can pass emissions.
And it's better you feel that the maf is going off-power, than running lean on-boost!
If your cars starts running very bad, you just unplug the MAF, and the car goes into limp mode. In limp mode I did not touch lambda control, so it will still be on, and you will be able to limp home on 14.7 AFR.

[mouse]

No such thing as emmisions or MOT tests over here

And MAF takes air temp into account so I assume no issues with accuracy say on a 45 deg C day with 60-70 C air going into the engine?

Also is this all done on the chips? .. so with a switchable setup one map could have this and the other run normal?

[prj]

No such thing as emmisions or MOT tests over here

And MAF takes air temp into account so I assume no issues with accuracy say on a 45 deg C day with 60-70 C air going into the engine?

Also is this all done on the chips? .. so with a switchable setup one map could have this and the other run normal?

Yes to both questions, not that you need to run normal...

[mouse]

So just to clarify, is lambda used only at idle & fast idle? or is it also used say at 3/4 throttle?

And does this need live mapping or can it work on generic maps for standard engine & turbo?

[mcandmar]

This thread pretty much sums up my opinion in tuning Motronic. Those in the know hold onto the information dearly, and strongly defend it. Where as VEMS is like the open source ECU, lots of support freely available for those who want to learn. If i was to undertake the task of learning how to tune, and map my own cars there is only one way to go. And respect to those who have...

[prj]

So just to clarify, is lambda used only at idle & fast idle? or is it also used say at 3/4 throttle?

And does this need live mapping or can it work on generic maps for standard engine & turbo?

Works only at idle and fast idle. Not in any other conditions.
Does not require live remap if your car is totally standard - generic upgrade.

Check your PM

[dspl1236]

This thread pretty much sums up my opinion in tuning Motronic. Those in the know hold onto the information dearly, and strongly defend it. Where as VEMS is like the open source ECU, lots of support freely available for those who want to learn. If i was to undertake the task of learning how to tune, and map my own cars there is only one way to go. And respect to those who have...

...but i think there is one issue with that. as time goes on, less and less knowledge will be available...then one day no one will know motronic. I am 24, don't want to spend 5 years figuring this out. I have been trying to learn by reading and going by rs2 examples and little code words i see and then try to replicate on my own pc....but none of this works towards my 3b or my pt v8 ecus. everything is in different locations with less maps. there are some cool stuff being done here once said that never could be done on a motronic box.

even if we made this "open source", what is there to worry about? 1 out of 10 will make the attempt to do their own tuning, while the other 9 or more will go to a tuner for a tried and true tune. I am in the chip selling business myself...it is hard enough to sell name brand stuff let alone one off stuff for 20yr old hardware that has a cpu in that that landed us on the moon.

i have custom mods that would like to do some custom ecu tweaks, but with 2,500 miles to the nearest 'drive in' motronic tuner...that is just not an option for peak k26 performace...or even just a good fuel eco map. It still comes down to being able to burn chips and still have a clue what going on. you may say if the public starts doing thier own ecu's then everyone will blow up motors, but the same can happen on standalone.

this is what happens when you open source...it comes at a cost, but there is a free version to play and tinker...
Motronic Editor for Porsch/BMW/Others






I have documented and given away information on swaps (vr6). other companies have taken this info to make products to sell for the swaps to make money. pissed me off at first, but i still give away swap info because it furthers the development of the cars and community. i put a v8 in my cq, but i can't stay factory motronic unless i can get some quick help to remove the automatic coding on the ecu. i knows its there, i just need some insight where to look. so now i am looking at a DTA Pro that is for sale to solve my no start issue. if there was a group out there, this would be an easy fix to keep motronic.

[A80Avant]

if motronic was more easily teachable and user friendly i would have picked to fiddle around with that as well rather than a standalone. VEMS offered that versatility with a down to earth numbers which make easily sense, and also without having to connect emulators to do small changes all the time.

Im sure that once you do the effort to learn, it wont seem so complicated, but then you have the brick wall of not having anyone give you a few pointers. Motronic tuners keep their secrets, as if others that will learn about this kind of 15+year old ECUs they will loose business. IF Dmitri had come a bit sooner with all these new info about motronic, i bet a few of us(me included) may not have gone through to the VEMS path, as long as there were a few people willing to teach others who would use the knowledge for their own purpose(and not business)

[prj]

if motronic was more easily teachable and user friendly i would have picked to fiddle around with that as well rather than a standalone. VEMS offered that versatility with a down to earth numbers which make easily sense, and also without having to connect emulators to do small changes all the time.

It is very user friendly once you understand it. All the numbers are also easily translated and the emulators you should just keep attached all the time, VEMS just has "built in emulators".

The reason this info is not shared, is because it takes lots of effort to get there.
And if you ask questions or state things you know, you will get flamed for it by people who have heard something somewhere and think they know better.
There is not any motivation to share this info. I have only shared info with people who already made their effort. Who had been playing around with an emulator, poking at things, trying them on their cars.

How can I say it - there are a lot of people attempting to cross the river, and it is not worth the time to help each and every one of them - rather guide the the few who make it close to the other shore. There will be always this mentality with information, that required hard work to obtain, because when you give a small token - they will try to bite off your arm.

I have never declined answering direct questions - but I don't want to post on forum or talk to people who just like to talk theory. I have never declined to help someone who already made a commitment to tune his own ECU.
It may sound harsh - but this commitment is financial and helps weed out those kind of people who just ask lots of stupid questions because they have nothing better to do, and not because they really need that information.

Make of this what you will.