Modifying Motronic 2.3.2 ECU hardware and software.

[driftin jo]

^^^ what he said.

Or to put it another way

[Sir Buff]

So, i feel it perfectly reasonable that prj make a response in here. As you say, he is regarded and has achieved "god" status in ECU related matters, so i would value everything he says and be thankful for what tools and information you have already gained from him. We wouldn't want to bite the hand that feeds

true

[vwnut8392]

Thank you for your post and for joining the forum - i think it's great that people are still interested in understanding these cars and the electronics that run them, and people like yourself that take the time to document and add their experience to the mix make this forum what it is.

You did however point the fingger at prj in your OP, and in my opinion made it clear who you were referring to when you said:



So, i feel it perfectly reasonable that prj make a response in here. As you say, he is regarded and has achieved "god" status in ECU related matters, so i would value everything he says and be thankful for what tools and information you have already gained from him. We wouldn't want to bite the hand that feeds

thank you sonic. i would prefer to not deal with him regardless of what knowledge of he has, thats my opinion and im not going to go into it any further in this thread. that comment was not aimed at him in specific either. i also prided him for the mapfinder program but that goes over looked. i will say that every forum i post in am plagued by him and negative comments. so if you see fit to remove this thread and remove my account for my beliefs than so be it. im not here to play favoritism games, im here to talk freely and bring what knowlege i have to the table.

[rj scotty]

Why do ecu hacking threads always go this way?

[Sonic]

im not here to play favoritism games, im here to talk freely and bring what knowlege i have to the table.

Great... no problem then... talk away and i look forward to reading updates on this thread

[SteveH]

Why do ecu hacking threads always go this way?

Time, hard work and money

[prj]

thank you sonic. i would prefer to not deal with him regardless of what knowledge of he has, thats my opinion and im not going to go into it any further in this thread. that comment was not aimed at him in specific either. i also prided him for the mapfinder program but that goes over looked. i will say that every forum i post in am plagued by him and negative comments. so if you see fit to remove this thread and remove my account for my beliefs than so be it. im not here to play favoritism games, im here to talk freely and bring what knowlege i have to the table.

Yeah, I am really sorry for not giving you all the information that I have in exchange for nothing. Because as you put it "you can't be arsed to look into things yourself".

Now you are "plagued" huh.

Well I have a tip for you. You are not going to get any help from anyone by giving them attitude.
You feel entitled to all the information for some reason. I don't share that belief. In fact I don't give a damn about what you do and who you are and about your hard life and all the other reasons you've brought up as to why you should have access to all my knowledge instantly and without putting in any effort.

You ask for "no criticism", yet you continuously talk **** about me for no reason.
You can do that on nefmoto, but not here. As here every little lie of yours will be exposed.

[URquattroGus]

[vwnut8392]

high school was over for me 13 years ago so im done with the bickering. lets get this back on topic please. im glad this thread got attention but not the attention i wanted.

anyhow, i have been in contact with bosch automotive and they have been very cooperative with me on hooking me up with factory documentation on this fuel system suprisingly. im waiting to see what they want to release documentation to me. through reading i have heard people say there is a funktionsrahmen sheet that exists but only in a paper format and after a few conversations with people there it really does exist. i was saving this information for if and when i got the documentation like a suprise but i guess its time to let the cat out of the bag. if all goes well this is totally worth having regardless of price, and if i get it this will be the first place i post it for all of you guys to enjoy and develop freely.

[John B]

Great... no problem then... talk away and i look forward to reading updates on this thread

Gentlemen (& ladies), sharing information on this great forum is what it's all about for me. Many times have I found the answer to the S2 question I had. Yes it is awkward when folks have commercial interests and their livelihood involved but a plea from me (and hopefully others) can we put the weapons away?

[prj]

As I said before, I've always helped out anyone who is serious about this & has made some progress on their own.
Said user wasn't happy with getting answers to specific questions, his first demand was basically for me to hand over all my information to him, when I declined, he started posting **** about how he has been treated unfairly, and what a bad person I am, all the while using my tools to even get anywhere with the ECU.

There's quite a few people in the world who have access to my entire stack (data logging, launch control, NLS, ALS and so on), but these people helped with development, testing or other things. Never ever did they demand anything.

I've always said - ask specific questions, and it is likely you will get a specific answer.

But to be remotely serious about tuning these one needs proper logging tools, and these don't exist. Even the factory ones are quite primitive. I think they had special development ECU's / CPU kits to calibrate these, the factory logging functionality inside the ECU is inadequate to calibrate the ECU from scratch... And I am not talking about VAG-COM here, I am talking about McMess.

Also, to figure out anything, an emulator is basically a requirement. This one works well:
http://www.moates.net/ostrich-20-the...eed-p-169.html, and you need two of them. I had three at one point...

[Tonks4x4]

Ok A direct question for a complete beginner....

What is the difference in files

*.bin
*.xdf

What is the prefered method of viewing the contents of these files?

[prj]

The .bin is the firmware from the ECU.
An XDF is some metadata from TunerPro that tries to describe structures within the .bin.

The XDF's posted here are basically what my map finder program finds by analyzing a motronic binary and dumping it's master map table.
However, there are no constants defined.
There are also no conversions defined or what map really does what and how they all work together.

So pretty much useless really, unless you have a real time emulator and want to tinker with the maps, and know what to monitor for changes, and then start putting labels on the maps.
But that is not really enough, it's impossible to deduce what the maps do by playing with an emulator alone, to really understand what the ECU does, you either need to have someone from Bosch who is willing to leak factory information on the ECU, or you need to disassemble the ECU's program code, and basically read through machine code, label common routines and functions and find out how it works inside.

[Tonks4x4]

Thanks Dimitri, So using something like tunerPro to view the *.bin and the *.xdf file together should give me a better understanding?

[prj]

Thanks Dimitri, So using something like tunerPro to view the *.bin and the *.xdf file together should give me a better understanding?

You won't really get too much understanding.
The maps are mislabeled in this xdf. There are 6 ignition maps defined, how do you know which one is actually used?
There is also no such thing as "emergency ignition" and so on and so forth.

Basically what my tool does, is take out the manual labor of defining maps. The maps that are not labeled have been found by my tool... The ones that are labeled have been renamed.

All that has been done to this xdf are a few factors thrown in, most of the info can be found here: www.motronic.ws.
But the map labels are wrong - and it is impossible to really know how to label them unless you have a real time emulator with trace or go through the assembly code.

I am afraid you won't get much understanding by looking at this - to get understanding, you need to invest in some hardware, generate the XDF from scratch with my tool, and then have a go at it and see how things respond to changes. Just as starters.
Unless you fancy bashing your head repeatedly against the wall and trying to figure out stuff from the assembly code alone. This is extremely difficult.