Any bleeding experts ?

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  • S2central.net
    Retired OG Mod
    • Jul 2003
    • 16590
    • Country: Northern Ireland

    #1

    Any bleeding experts ?

    I have one problem on the brakes after fitting one new rear caliper. The caliper itself and handbrake mechanism works fine - piston is smooth. I have no leaks.

    What I do have is a weird long brake pedal with some sponginess after renewing this caliper and bleeding approx 500cc of fluid through it. The old stuff was mega nasty looking brown stuff.

    I used a new tin of DOT4 fluid with an Eezibleed kit - you know the one that uses tyre pressure to force fluid thru the system. Had approx 1.5bar in the tyre. Caliper seemed to bleed just fine but the pedal has never felt as weird.

    Brake pedal has been pumped many times with engine running so that I get the rear pistons moving - it actually gave me the RED (!) Alert with the engine running doing that - I was sure I must have had a leak but no sir.

    Have I missed a trick here ?
    There is no bleed screw on the master cylinder that I can see.

    I didn't have any probs during the bleed except having to tighten seals on the bleed kit so that it was airtight. Bit perplexed but maybe it just needs bled thru some more and of course when I renew the other rear caliper I will be doing that. This eezibleed is a bit temperamental - maybe I'll just bleed brakes the traditional way.

    Any other ideas from the assembled brake gurus ?

    Paul
    Paul Nugent
    Webmaster http://S2central.net
    Administrator http://S2forum.com

    1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
    2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
    2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

    Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

    There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't
  • quattronutter
    S2Forum Maniac
    • Jan 2005
    • 690
    • Country: United Kingdom

    #2
    i would re bleed the whole system again,i have found the old fashion way of pumping the pedal and bleeding with an assistant better on some vehicles,did you make sure the rear brake pressure regulator was open?to allow full pressure to the back brakes...

    Comment

    • kwlw
      S2Forum Extremist
      • Sep 2004
      • 1025
      • Country: Lithuania

      #3
      Originally posted by quattronutter
      i would re bleed the whole system again,i have found the old fashion way of pumping the pedal and bleeding with an assistant better on some vehicles,did you make sure the rear brake pressure regulator was open?to allow full pressure to the back brakes...
      How to open this regulator? I have heard the same problem on B3 chasis non quattro car. Dunno, how stupid it sounds, but guy cured the problem when he went for a short ride, and did several stops from 20mph to 0 with severe braking. After that he rebled the brakes. I think cause is that regulator. But what is it, and where is it? I have never seen something that you can "open" on a quattro brake system.

      Sau
      200 20vt 88' 3b, human carrier
      CQ typ85 with AAN inside, see project blog at http://kwlw.blogspot.com

      Comment

      • Corey
        Banned
        • Sep 2003
        • 2793
        • Country: United Kingdom

        #4
        Paul,

        Did you rebleed the whole system or just this caliper?
        Corey
        01636 822288

        Comment

        • dan_b
          S2Forum Possessed
          • Sep 2003
          • 3670
          • Home: United Kingdom Current: England

          #5
          Paul - you need to make very sure that the Ezibleed cylinder is nicely full and is standing vertically - put it above the master cylinder if you can. There is a chance you can actually draw air in if the nozzle isn't completely and fully covered. Also, you may find that 1.5BAR could be too high.

          Secondly, you MUST bleed all four brake calipers. Start with the rear right, then rear left, then front left, then front right. If you have multipots up front, bleed from both nipples on each caliper, outside first. Also, double check the bleed nipples are fully closed after each one.

          I would suggest you aim to pull through at least 2-2.5 litres of clean fresh fluid.

          I have never had a problem with the Ezibleed myself, and I change my fluid every 12 months. Just make sure you do all 4 brake lines, always starting with the one furthest from the master cylinder.
          Ex S2 owner, now running around in an A4 Avant quattro...

          Comment

          • S2central.net
            Retired OG Mod
            • Jul 2003
            • 16590
            • Country: Northern Ireland

            #6
            Well I fitted and bled the 2nd rear caliper today (rear left) and the pedal feel is still woefully bad - loads of travel and no bite - despite many pumps of the pedal to push the pistons into place. With the handbrake I can lock both rear wheels - stationary or at speed (declutched of course)... But the pedal feels rubbish - nothing significant happens until the the pedal is much nearer the carpet than normal.

            I shouldn't need to bleed the fronts as all quattros have a front rear split and I have not opened the front circuit.

            As for th brake pressure regulator - that is non adjustable on the S2 - its not like the older Coupes where you had to trick the regulator into providing more pressure for bleeding.

            I have bled a liter of DOT4 thru the rear now (500cc each side) but I guess I just have to try again - might do it the old method this time with someone pressing the middle pedal.

            Only question I have is on the brake pads - the factory S8 items are a Textar pad. One of them is coated in a very thing synthetic backing - presumably to stop vibration noise so I put that one to the piston side. The other pad is just a metal backed pad which I put to the outside. I can't imagine that is significant - just asking the question.
            Paul Nugent
            Webmaster http://S2central.net
            Administrator http://S2forum.com

            1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
            2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
            2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

            Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

            There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

            Comment

            • GT500
              S2Forum Fiend
              • Jun 2006
              • 2181
              • Country: United Kingdom

              #7
              Fill your ezy bleed then connect to tyre, then press pedal at the same time.
              Also remove bottom caliper to bracket bolt, loosen top bolt, bleed having swung the caliper so the bleed nipple is the highest point.
              Sounds like trapped air somewhere, got to be calipers...
              Rob..
              94 RS2 Noggy,LHD,MTM map,18"cup 1s,245/35/18,Bilsteins,RS2 H&Rs,Cup splitter.
              87 UR 20v ABY
              97 S6 Avant
              96 A6 C4 2.5 TDI quattro avant,Ming,Wietec/eibach,chipped
              1967 Ford Mustang,Eleanor,460ci v8

              Comment

              • Corey
                Banned
                • Sep 2003
                • 2793
                • Country: United Kingdom

                #8
                Paul,

                You need to bleed the whole system when doing any work on it.

                After we have done a flush we have an assistant press the brake pedal prior to opening the first nipple and carrying on pushing down until the last nipple has been bled, the theory behind this is that when you take your foot off the pedal you sweep the master cylinder with brand new fluid, works for us.
                Corey
                01636 822288

                Comment

                • CHEN
                  S2Forum Addict
                  • Mar 2004
                  • 329
                  • Country: England

                  #9
                  I have had this on a 3B before, Spent hours bleeding the rear, but if you put your foot on the brake the rear wheels would still turn. Bleeding all 4 brakes manually improved this a bit, then it just got better by being driven, around 10 miles later it was spot on. Never really understood why, my guess is air trapped in the master, with the power servo running it might help it clear?

                  Comment

                  • S2central.net
                    Retired OG Mod
                    • Jul 2003
                    • 16590
                    • Country: Northern Ireland

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Corey
                    Paul,

                    You need to bleed the whole system when doing any work on it.

                    After we have done a flush we have an assistant press the brake pedal prior to opening the first nipple and carrying on pushing down until the last nipple has been bled, the theory behind this is that when you take your foot off the pedal you sweep the master cylinder with brand new fluid, works for us.
                    That is my next course of action and I note that the bleeding procedure in the manual for more modern Audis states the use of an assistant to press the pedal during bleeding - or use of of those adjustable clamp things between drivers seat and pedal.

                    I still don't understand why opening one circuit can affect the other - I'm no brake guru but I've bled lots of cars before and only ever had to bleed the affected circuit before. Confused !
                    Paul Nugent
                    Webmaster http://S2central.net
                    Administrator http://S2forum.com

                    1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
                    2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
                    2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

                    Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

                    There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

                    Comment

                    • mcandmar
                      S2Forum Zealot
                      • Apr 2004
                      • 5118
                      • Country: Ireland

                      #11
                      Paul, I had a similar issue after fitting new calipers, ditch the easybleed toy and get somebody to help you the old fasioned way. I ended up having to bleed master cyl, and all four corners to get it right again.

                      Mark.
                      91CQ20v - Gone to a new home
                      93UR-S4 - The Magic Carpet
                      94S2Bus - The Emerald Express

                      Comment

                      • waad_uk
                        S2Forum Addict
                        • Jul 2006
                        • 411
                        • Country: United Kingdom

                        #12
                        Seen one of these in action. Much much better than the eazy-bleed.

                        It pulls the fluid through from the nipple. As long as the reservoir is topped up no problems and no mess!



                        Plus you end up with a vacuum test tool for all teh vacuum hoses and wastegate diaphram
                        '93 S2 Coupe

                        Comment

                        • S2central.net
                          Retired OG Mod
                          • Jul 2003
                          • 16590
                          • Country: Northern Ireland

                          #13
                          Actually I have a MityVac with a drain bottle - last used it to suck out diesel from a filter. That could work actually... but I need someones leg on the middle pedal !

                          Cheers,

                          Paul
                          Paul Nugent
                          Webmaster http://S2central.net
                          Administrator http://S2forum.com

                          1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
                          2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
                          2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

                          Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

                          There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

                          Comment

                          • mcandmar
                            S2Forum Zealot
                            • Apr 2004
                            • 5118
                            • Country: Ireland

                            #14
                            Never had much luck with them either, i found when you build up a vacume and slack off the bleed nipple it would suck air around it through the screw threads. Never managed to get a constant fluid flow with it.

                            It did work a treat finding an air leak in my cruise control
                            91CQ20v - Gone to a new home
                            93UR-S4 - The Magic Carpet
                            94S2Bus - The Emerald Express

                            Comment

                            • Fat Audi 80
                              Super Moderator
                              • Jan 2004
                              • 10547
                              • Country: England

                              #15
                              Stange. I had never bled a car before in my life, I replaced both rear calipers, only bled those calipers (using Ezibleed) and found a rock hard brake pedal afterwards!

                              Good luck sorting it out.

                              Cheers,

                              Steve.
                              The Perfectionist
                              sigpic
                              Audi Class Concours winner Stoner Park 2014, ADI Concours D'Elegance Class Winner 2008, Runner up 2014. Winner, S2Forum Show'n'Shine Billing 2006 & 2008.

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