Brake bleeding - help required before I burn the car

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  • shark_90
    S2Forum Extremist
    • Mar 2007
    • 1475
    • Country: United Kingdom

    #1

    Brake bleeding - help required before I burn the car

    I've been working on the car all day today taking my big brake kit off and putting standard brakes back on. All was going well until it came to bleeding them up.. I just cannot do it, whatever I try.

    First of all was a manual bleed, in the correct order (rear left, rear right, front left, front right). This left me with loads of pedal travel. We did it again just to be sure.

    After no success, I went to Halfrauds and bought 5L of DOT4 and a Gunson Eazibleed, I'm gonna do this and I'm gonna do it right. I'm gonna run loads of fluid through each caliper and there's gonna be NO air in the system. Oh yes.

    Done that. Twice. Used nearly 5 litres of fluid. Bled the clutch too, just to be sure. Done it with the engine running. Done it with the brake pedal down to the floor. Done it holding one hand up in the air while singing "Old Mac Donald". I'm really out of options and patience.

    Can someone please tell me what I'm doing wrong? The car is still up on axle stands and I haven't actually tried to drive the car, but the pedal goes (very easily, thanks to the lovely fresh fluid) straight to the floor and if I have the car in gear turning the wheels I don't get a bite until right at the bottom. The odd thing we found is that the rears seem to grab first.

    The calipers are from a forum member and I don't know how long they've been off a car, but even if they were seized I should get a firm pedal so I'm not pointing at the calipers.

    Last time I tried to bleed the brakes myself I ended up trailering the car to my local garage. The guy there didn't do anything different to what I did from what I could see.

    The handbrake is OFF too.

    Has anyone got any info that'll help me so I can get this done tomorrow?

    Please!
    1994 Audi S2 Avant - in pieces
    2006 Skoda Octavia vRS 2.0TFSi - goes fast
    1985 Audi 90 quattro - is wet

    Don't forget the East Midlands Meet -Last Tuesday of every month at 7:30pm just off M1 J28!![/COLOR]
  • rsmaku
    S2Forum Hobbyist
    • Mar 2009
    • 20
    • Country: United States

    #2
    Have you tried to push like 3 times and then bleed. its a 2 men job. close the bleeding nut, pump 3 times, press pedal down and hold, then screw the nut open, when pressure is off, close it again. and repeat if necessary.

    second one i like is 2 men job also. first one is screwing nut open, when its open other one is pushing slowly pedal until its down, then first one ise closing the nut. pump like 3 times and repeat operation until you get results. works for me
    Last edited by rsmaku; 14 March 2009, 19:19.

    Comment

    • s2driveruk
      Super Moderator
      • Jul 2003
      • 12696
      • Country: England

      #3
      presume you are using the ezibleed with a spare tyre to provide the pressure? Does seem odd as using it on mine resulted in a lovely hard pedal and nice, high engagement?!?!?!? I guess only other thing could be a knackered servo, there is a test on here somewhere but seems unlikely. Definately got a good seal on the reservoir and not introducing air by letting the bottle run low with fluid to force through the circuit right?
      sigpic

      1992 3b S2 Coupe

      Comment

      • LHD_Kid
        S2Forum Possessed
        • May 2006
        • 3696
        • Home: England Current: Belgium

        #4
        Hi,
        I agree, it's really a 2 man job.... normal method would be pump the pedal 3 or 4 times, then on the last push down, as the pedal is coming down the bleed nipple is opened, then closed as the pedal reaches the floor. Raise the pedal, pump again and repeat a few times.... should be fine....
        I suspect there has to be "something" wrong with your technique, as if it happened last time and somebody else did exactly what you did and it worked.....
        It shouldn't be difficult, but don't give up....!!!!
        Chris
        Honda CBR 1100XX Blackbird Turbo....undergoing major changes.....
        S2 Coupe... bit easier off the line...
        '03 ZX12-R daily hack.... lots of nice bolt ons...

        Comment

        • shark_90
          S2Forum Extremist
          • Mar 2007
          • 1475
          • Country: United Kingdom

          #5
          Well I wondered about my technique.. which is why I got the easibleed from Halfrauds. Can't go wrong with that surely??!

          I've definitely got good seals and the fluid never gets low.
          1994 Audi S2 Avant - in pieces
          2006 Skoda Octavia vRS 2.0TFSi - goes fast
          1985 Audi 90 quattro - is wet

          Don't forget the East Midlands Meet -Last Tuesday of every month at 7:30pm just off M1 J28!![/COLOR]

          Comment

          • shark_90
            S2Forum Extremist
            • Mar 2007
            • 1475
            • Country: United Kingdom

            #6
            Originally posted by shark_90
            The calipers are from a forum member and I don't know how long they've been off a car, but even if they were seized I should get a firm pedal so I'm not pointing at the calipers.
            I've had confirmation that the calipers haven't been off a car for long at all and are AOK as I thought
            1994 Audi S2 Avant - in pieces
            2006 Skoda Octavia vRS 2.0TFSi - goes fast
            1985 Audi 90 quattro - is wet

            Don't forget the East Midlands Meet -Last Tuesday of every month at 7:30pm just off M1 J28!![/COLOR]

            Comment

            • s2driveruk
              Super Moderator
              • Jul 2003
              • 12696
              • Country: England

              #7
              true, not a lot you can do wrong with the ezibleed really
              sigpic

              1992 3b S2 Coupe

              Comment

              • macspring
                S2Forum Zealot
                • Mar 2005
                • 6371
                • Home: Ireland Current: Wallis & Futuna

                #8
                Is it to do with,

                the fact that the car is on axle stands and the wheels are hanging down, similar to a Mk 1 Golf where the brake compensator for the brakes on the back axle will mean one will never be able to bleed the brakes if the back axle is hanging down.

                Above maybe a long shot, but at the stage you're at at suggestions maybe of assistance. Good luck resolving it. BTDT on a Mk 1.

                Post what the cure is, assuming it is not a box of matches.

                Kind regards.

                Comment

                • shark_90
                  S2Forum Extremist
                  • Mar 2007
                  • 1475
                  • Country: United Kingdom

                  #9
                  All 4 corners are on axle stands at the moment, but I must admit that I wondered if it would make a difference.

                  I almost want to drain all the fluid out under pressure with the eezibleed and start again. I'm sure I haven't introduced air into the system at the res cap or let the fluid run low.. what would the score be on effectively emptying the system and refilling from scratch? Would I need to prime anything? ABS? Servo?
                  1994 Audi S2 Avant - in pieces
                  2006 Skoda Octavia vRS 2.0TFSi - goes fast
                  1985 Audi 90 quattro - is wet

                  Don't forget the East Midlands Meet -Last Tuesday of every month at 7:30pm just off M1 J28!![/COLOR]

                  Comment

                  • s2driveruk
                    Super Moderator
                    • Jul 2003
                    • 12696
                    • Country: England

                    #10
                    i bled mine on stands and the clutch too and other worked so not sure the answer lays there but more than happy to be proved wrong. I think draining the entire circuit will probaly increase the headache rather than resolve in my opinion. i'm presuming it was all ok before started in terms of pedal travel etc? Have you checked all flexis to ensure they dont bulge etc under pressure. does the fluid run clear of bubbles and how much are you pulling through on each corner?
                    sigpic

                    1992 3b S2 Coupe

                    Comment

                    • shark_90
                      S2Forum Extremist
                      • Mar 2007
                      • 1475
                      • Country: United Kingdom

                      #11
                      Yes I wondered if draining the entire circuit would cause more headaches.. I'm inclined to think that it will. Yes it was all OK before, so it must be something I'm doing wrong.

                      Fluid runs clear with no bubbles (I've put literally litres through the system!!), done a good 500ml through each one, twice.
                      1994 Audi S2 Avant - in pieces
                      2006 Skoda Octavia vRS 2.0TFSi - goes fast
                      1985 Audi 90 quattro - is wet

                      Don't forget the East Midlands Meet -Last Tuesday of every month at 7:30pm just off M1 J28!![/COLOR]

                      Comment

                      • jameswkr
                        S2Forum Maniac
                        • Jul 2003
                        • 538
                        • Country: United Kingdom

                        #12
                        I was warned when replacing my front hoses not to let the ABS control unit run empty of fluid...hope this isnt the problem and not sure how to overcome it if this has happened...

                        Comment

                        • macspring
                          S2Forum Zealot
                          • Mar 2005
                          • 6371
                          • Home: Ireland Current: Wallis & Futuna

                          #13
                          Shark90,

                          I know this might seem expensive, but I have one and after using the Gunson's Eazibleed, this is really fantastic. It may be worth the investment or buying with a group of mates who live near by?

                          Sealey is known nationally & internationally as a leading brand & supplier of professional tools and workshop equipment


                          But of course the bleeding may not be the cause of the problem, not sure what is mind you.

                          Another clutching at straws - would it help to bleed the brakes with the engine running, ( any port in a storm at this stage ).

                          Kind regards.

                          Comment

                          • shark_90
                            S2Forum Extremist
                            • Mar 2007
                            • 1475
                            • Country: United Kingdom

                            #14
                            OK, been working on the car most of the morning.

                            Pop quiz: for those of you who have standard brakes, which way does your bleed nipple point? Up or down?
                            1994 Audi S2 Avant - in pieces
                            2006 Skoda Octavia vRS 2.0TFSi - goes fast
                            1985 Audi 90 quattro - is wet

                            Don't forget the East Midlands Meet -Last Tuesday of every month at 7:30pm just off M1 J28!![/COLOR]

                            Comment

                            • LHD_Kid
                              S2Forum Possessed
                              • May 2006
                              • 3696
                              • Home: England Current: Belgium

                              #15
                              Originally posted by shark_90
                              OK, been working on the car most of the morning.

                              Pop quiz: for those of you who have standard brakes, which way does your bleed nipple point? Up or down?
                              Sure it's up, as in the piccy.... Clicky here Then technical info, brakes including part numbers, general description... there is a diagram from the Family Album... (can't seem to link directly to it though...)

                              This means air is generally at the top of the caliper and is release out the nipple....

                              Does this mean you have the L / R calipers on the wrong sides.....?

                              Chris
                              Honda CBR 1100XX Blackbird Turbo....undergoing major changes.....
                              S2 Coupe... bit easier off the line...
                              '03 ZX12-R daily hack.... lots of nice bolt ons...

                              Comment

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