Master cylinder questions and hydraulics assisted brakes conversion

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  • Skull
    S2Forum Possessed
    • Mar 2004
    • 3506
    • Country: Slovenia

    #1

    Master cylinder questions and hydraulics assisted brakes conversion

    Hello.

    After the small reds 314mm conversion i have been thinking about brakes...

    1) According to the family album, in my compi i have the master cylinder with the sizes: 23,81x13x22,5 (Girling) (smaller than the s2/rs2 piece), but im not sure because i cant find the part number on it.

    I have at home a master cylinder from an 1992 urs4.

    the family album shows it should be 25,40x13x22,5 (same dimensions as the s2 aby MC)

    the part number of the urs4 MC is something like 154 135 617

    Now the obvious questions:

    Will the urs4 MC fit my brake servo "drum" (i think it should)

    will there be any gain in brake power?


    2) I also have the hydraulic brake servo from the urs4. according to the PN should be the same as the s2 piece.

    What else do i need to install it?

    Would the tandem pump from an s2 fit on my engine?

    Is the bomb a must?

    Enough for now

    Thanx!
    Last edited by Skull; 20 December 2009, 15:04.
    Audi Quattro WR
  • Skull
    S2Forum Possessed
    • Mar 2004
    • 3506
    • Country: Slovenia

    #2


    strange part number



    Audi Quattro WR

    Comment

    • johne
      S2Forum Extremist
      • Apr 2007
      • 1405
      • Country: United Kingdom

      #3
      If you use a hydraulic brake servo rather than a vacumm one you'll need a bomb for two reasons:

      It's the bomb that regulates the servo pressure, not the pump.

      Without the bomb you've got no pressure reserve to assist the brakes if you brake more than once in quick succession

      John

      Comment

      • Error404
        Super Moderator
        • Mar 2007
        • 19789
        • Country: United Kingdom

        #4
        IMHO Rok the vacuum servo is a better option. You will need to fit the S2 tandem PAS pump for a start, plus the bomb as johne said - more crap in teh enigne bay and more expensive stuff to go wrong (hydraulic servo is a PITA to change springs to mind )

        Your master cylinder should be fine with the brembos, plenty people with stock S2 cylinder running those huge 8 pots without any problems, i'm not sure you need to move any extra fluid mate
        Panthero Coupé quattro 20vt
        Indigo ABY coupé
        Imola B6 S4 Avant

        Comment

        • johne
          S2Forum Extremist
          • Apr 2007
          • 1405
          • Country: United Kingdom

          #5
          Originally posted by Error404
          Your master cylinder should be fine with the brembos, plenty people with stock S2 cylinder running those huge 8 pots without any problems, i'm not sure you need to move any extra fluid mate
          and I read a post stating that the 4 pistons in the small reds have almost the same surface area as the two pistons in the standard caliper which is why the standard S2 master cylinder will do just fine. Certainly does on my car with 996 Brembo calipers.

          John

          Comment

          • Skull
            S2Forum Possessed
            • Mar 2004
            • 3506
            • Country: Slovenia

            #6
            thanx gusy, looks like i will leave the vacuum drum on.

            my master cylinder is smaller than the S2 unit. i will try to fit the urs4 piece today, looks like a pefrect fit.

            my MC was designed for two 54mm pistons, now i have 4x40 and 4x36mm pistons. so there should be a difference?
            Audi Quattro WR

            Comment

            • johne
              S2Forum Extremist
              • Apr 2007
              • 1405
              • Country: United Kingdom

              #7
              4 x 40mm pistons is 5026 square mm
              4 x 36mm pistons is 4071 square mm

              which gives a total for the Brembo caliper of 9100 square mm.

              2 x 54 mm pistons is 4580 square mm - but due to the sliding caliper arrangement the effective area is twice this i.e. 9160 square mm

              Hence the two calipers are almost identical in piston surface area and thus identical in pedal travel for the same master cylinder bore.

              John

              Comment

              • Skull
                S2Forum Possessed
                • Mar 2004
                • 3506
                • Country: Slovenia

                #8
                johne: so basically my stock MC should be ok...

                i fitted the urs4 MC today, bleed the system and...

                the brakes work, but, the pedal feels very hard, i cant lock the wheels on the wet.

                will try again tomorrow.
                Audi Quattro WR

                Comment

                • Skull
                  S2Forum Possessed
                  • Mar 2004
                  • 3506
                  • Country: Slovenia

                  #9
                  another thing:

                  when i turn off the engine, and have the brake pedal pressed in, the pedal returns up to the top, even pressing my foot up?!?
                  Audi Quattro WR

                  Comment

                  • johne
                    S2Forum Extremist
                    • Apr 2007
                    • 1405
                    • Country: United Kingdom

                    #10
                    Is the non return valve in the line between your servo and the inlet manifold not working, not fitted or fitted the wrong way round?

                    John

                    Comment

                    • Skull
                      S2Forum Possessed
                      • Mar 2004
                      • 3506
                      • Country: Slovenia

                      #11
                      i did not touch any vacuums...

                      what is the nipple on the brakefluid oil tank for?

                      I have a hose attached to it, but i dont know where it goes...
                      Audi Quattro WR

                      Comment

                      • johne
                        S2Forum Extremist
                        • Apr 2007
                        • 1405
                        • Country: United Kingdom

                        #12
                        It goes to the clutch master cylinder - it's the fluid supply to it since the brakes and clutch share the same fluid reservoir.

                        It's set up from the bottom so even if you loose all the fluid out through the clutch system there's still some left to work the brakes.

                        John

                        Comment

                        • Skull
                          S2Forum Possessed
                          • Mar 2004
                          • 3506
                          • Country: Slovenia

                          #13
                          ok

                          is the master cylinder a 2 stage thing?

                          because looks like the first half of the travel work as it should, but passing the half was it is hard as a rock...
                          Audi Quattro WR

                          Comment

                          • Skull
                            S2Forum Possessed
                            • Mar 2004
                            • 3506
                            • Country: Slovenia

                            #14
                            i have replaced the s4 MC (probably busted) back with the stock piece, and bleed the think properly, and now it works as it should.

                            but the nose dive is calling for a rear brake upgrade
                            Audi Quattro WR

                            Comment

                            • A80Avant
                              S2Forum Obsessed
                              • Sep 2005
                              • 10873
                              • Country: Greece

                              #15
                              i may need to replace the master cylinder on my rs2(if chaning the brake fluid does not save my A#$#*...

                              part number: 4A0 611 021 C

                              anyone knows where i can find a good one before biting the bullet and buying a new one from the stealers?

                              Comment

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