URGENT - safety issue - ABY nearly killed me

[A80Avant]

Hard lines are not being flexed all the time, so why would they break.

I never mentioned, the line probably broke because it came from a dodgy source.

The front of a coupe has two lines. The one from the strut to the caliper, does not get any motion. The one from the inside of the fender to the strut, is getting bent in several directions. Up and down in a vertical plane along the strut, and in a horizontal plane when you turn the wheel. Sometimes, both at once.

And you truely believe, that this back and forth motion, at the points where the hose meets the fitting, does not cause fatigue and breaks in the metal? Then tell me why his hose broke at that location.

Greg W.

I hear what you say and please excuse my lack of knowledge on the subject. However I'm baffled with this thread as for donkeys years we hear and read about the superiority of braided lines on the brakes, of their durability over the rubber hoses, their improved feel of the pedal due to non flexibility etc and so there are lines like that made for all cars and makes.

How come now after one damaged hose we come to the conclusion that they are much inferior actually to the rubber ones as the rubber ones have intricate material that wont leave you in a similar dire situation brakeless and in danger.?

Should we all be switching back to oem brake lines then? Should we all keep an annual check of the lines and make sure they have no twists and bents that are dangerous?

What are we meant to do?

[jamie9048]

check of the brake flexi`s is part of the Mot so should be done once a year but regular cleaning of brakes should be done twice a year if not more on a fast road car IMO

my bikes have run braided lines for years and never had one bit of bother

[GazzaG60]

its about not having any twist in the flexi after install. aldo make sure the steering movement is not putting pressure against them.

also make sure they don't rub on anything if covered with plastic. water down the inside of the plastic sheath is a broken line in the making.

[90quattrocoupe]

I hear what you say and please excuse my lack of knowledge on the subject. However I'm baffled with this thread as for donkeys years we hear and read about the superiority of braided lines on the brakes, of their durability over the rubber hoses, their improved feel of the pedal due to non flexibility etc and so there are lines like that made for all cars and makes.

How come now after one damaged hose we come to the conclusion that they are much inferior actually to the rubber ones as the rubber ones have intricate material that wont leave you in a similar dire situation brakeless and in danger.?

Should we all be switching back to oem brake lines then? Should we all keep an annual check of the lines and make sure they have no twists and bents that are dangerous?

What are we meant to do?

The stainless steel lines do all the things you say they are supposed to. No expansion of the brake line, firmer pedal, etc. If you do an inspection of your brake lines, say once evey 6 months, you should probably be good.

I am going by purely observation. I am 65 years old. I grew up a race tracks. My folks raced a 56 T2, 57 TR3, 57 corvette, and 63 corvette in the late 50s and 60s. I worked on pit crews, off and on for 20 years. Flagged corners, worked tech, and code compliance.

Over the years, I have seen 7 severed stainless brake lines and I don't know how many more frayed ones. All these lines were on the front of the car. Those lines get the most flex. Except for a few, which were rubbing issues, the lines broke or were frayed at the connection. That is the weakest point, again from observation.

Of the 7 lines, that were severed, 2 were mine. One on a track car and one on a street car. The track car, ended up broken. The street car came out ok.

As human beings, we have a tendency to put something on a car, and if new, we will mostly forget about it. Until it breaks. A reinforced rubber brake line is a lot more forgiving than a SS line. The rubber cracks, gets splits, bubbles, etc. It will usually leak before it comes apart. A SS line, usually just breaks.

Just my observation. I run rubber on my coupe. It may not be the firmest pedal out there, but it brakes just fine.

Greg W.

[A80Avant]

Great. Thanks for all the info. I am one of those that were meant to believe the brake lines where fit and forget kind of thing. Apparently not...

[Zeus]

Braided lines are made out of metal. I am assuming this was a front line. Anytime you have something metal, and you bend it back and forth enough, it will break. At the caliper connection is the most likely, as that is where the braid is next to an inflexible fitting. Or at the other end. As noted above, just braid around simple rubber, no reinforcement like with oem hoses. We think this happens because of corrosion, so we cover the lines with a shrink wrap of some sort. That just makes it harder to see the damage, when doing an inspection.

I don't run them for that reason. Seen it before and will see it again. You can blame Cory, obviously a bad sort, but it will happen, especially on daily drivers.

Greg W.

This is only true if you bend it to a point where forces exceed the endurance limit of the material. If the hose is well designed (i.e. not designed to break after x cycles) and correctly fitted (preventing a small bending radius, torsional stress and unnecessary strain) it should not fail.
This is only if the force on the braided wire stays below the endurance limit.

This is the reason they use high tensile steel like Bekaert makes for tires for example, under normal road conditions this prevents the steel from bending to a point where forces exceed the endurance limit (reducing the chance of premature failure).

[Rikki Kitto]

The stainless steel lines do all the things you say they are supposed to. No expansion of the brake line, firmer pedal, etc. If you do an inspection of your brake lines, say once evey 6 months, you should probably be good.

I am going by purely observation. I am 65 years old. I grew up a race tracks. My folks raced a 56 T2, 57 TR3, 57 corvette, and 63 corvette in the late 50s and 60s. I worked on pit crews, off and on for 20 years. Flagged corners, worked tech, and code compliance.

Over the years, I have seen 7 severed stainless brake lines and I don't know how many more frayed ones. All these lines were on the front of the car. Those lines get the most flex. Except for a few, which were rubbing issues, the lines broke or were frayed at the connection. That is the weakest point, again from observation.

Of the 7 lines, that were severed, 2 were mine. One on a track car and one on a street car. The track car, ended up broken. The street car came out ok.

As human beings, we have a tendency to put something on a car, and if new, we will mostly forget about it. Until it breaks. A reinforced rubber brake line is a lot more forgiving than a SS line. The rubber cracks, gets splits, bubbles, etc. It will usually leak before it comes apart. A SS line, usually just breaks.

Just my observation. I run rubber on my coupe. It may not be the firmest pedal out there, but it brakes just fine.

Greg W.

Nice to hear some wise common sense advice

[90quattrocoupe]

This is only true if you bend it to a point where forces exceed the endurance limit of the material. If the hose is well designed (i.e. not designed to break after x cycles) and correctly fitted (preventing a small bending radius, torsional stress and unnecessary strain) it should not fail.
This is only if the force on the braided wire stays below the endurance limit.

This is the reason they use high tensile steel like Bekaert makes for tires for example, under normal road conditions this prevents the steel from bending to a point where forces exceed the endurance limit (reducing the chance of premature failure).

You are right.

Most of us are prone to buy what is off the shelf, or someone else has designed for our cars. We don't know what grade of stainless is being used. Is it soft enough to with stand the bending motions, or is it too brittle. We don't know what the thickness of the braid is. What is the material of the hose itself? How much pressure is being used to crimp the fitting on the end? How far past the crimp, does the braid extend?

If they make the brake line to the same length as the original, is this the correct length for a braided line, or should it be slightly longer or shorter? If they were making them for our coupes, why do most of them come with female fittings vs male fittings? Then we have to use adapters. Is this extra length taken into consideration when the line is made?

Seems like a lot of variables, we know nothing about.

Greg W.

[smogthemog]

I fitted Goodrich Braided hoses all round when I bought my S6 back in 2006 and within six months one of the rears had done what is in the photo's below.
I narrowly missed the car in front coming into a roundabout when my foot went partially to the floor with my kids in the car too! I guess I still had spit braking but never the less, a heart stopping incident indeed!

Yesterday I fitted new front Bilstein Disks and Ferrodo Pads to the front and on removing the OS calipers I found one of the front ones gone too!!!
Unfortunately I have chucked the hose from yesterday so can't photo it but it was more or less identical to the one in the photo below.
I really DO NOT recommend fitting braided hoses, or lets say, I will never fit them again on any of my vehicles!

[Zeus]

You are right.

Most of us are prone to buy what is off the shelf, or someone else has designed for our cars. We don't know what grade of stainless is being used. Is it soft enough to with stand the bending motions, or is it too brittle. We don't know what the thickness of the braid is. What is the material of the hose itself? How much pressure is being used to crimp the fitting on the end? How far past the crimp, does the braid extend?

If they make the brake line to the same length as the original, is this the correct length for a braided line, or should it be slightly longer or shorter? If they were making them for our coupes, why do most of them come with female fittings vs male fittings? Then we have to use adapters. Is this extra length taken into consideration when the line is made?

Seems like a lot of variables, we know nothing about.

Greg W.

The issue is probably more related to economics than there being to much variables.
It is much more interesting for a manufacturer to make items that have a limited lifespan. These will need to be replaced every x miles or hours of operation, enabling the manufacturer to sell a new item every x months.

If they were to make hoses that lasted a lifetime, they would have to be horribly expensive in order for the company to survive, its just not economical to do this.

In this particular case, the company that makes the braided motorsport hoses will probably look at it as being a disposable item, as it is for motorsport use and will be replaced with new ones every x races or seasons (or at least checked every race).

Personally I also wouldn't recommend using this type of brake hoses, as they really don't offer you much of an advantage in normal road use. They are only more prone to wear and tear than standard hoses. You get a slightly stiffer pedal feel at the cost of having to check and replace your hoses at a regular interval. It's just not worth it in my opinion...