Broken A4 TDi

[teknobod]

Not a S/RS but same stable so there may be somebody on here with the knowledge to help.

To cut a long story short, I stuffed my father's 2003 A4 TDi instrument cluster trying to read out the pin code using the wrong kit, to try and code a spare key (Note:- Don't use SuperVAG hand held unit on RB4 crypto dashes (RTFM - Oh, there isn't one!!!!))

I'd already used it fine on my RS4!!

Dash ended up with 'DEF' fault.
I purchased an identical replacement used dash from Ebay, and with my confidence knocked from trashing it in the first place, was recommended an Auto electrician with dealer level diagnostic kit to adapt it.

I had to pay for 3 hours of his time even though he was unable to adapt it (to say I was a little p**'d of is an understatement!!!), although he did disable the immo in the engine ECU so I can start the car should I need to take it anywhere to get it sorted. (immo lamp flashing on dash)

Anyway, I've done quite a bit of Googling and think I may have found a possible reason.

When trying to perform the adaptation, I can login using the new cluster pin, selecting adaptation value 50 and entering the pin for the engine ECU (I don't have the pin for the old cluster, the reason for this whole sorry saga! although I am informed they should be the same), but block 1 changes from '?PIN' to Malfunction, although none of the lock timers increment (block 24 values all 0)

If I check measuring block 22 in instruments using VCDS, the second block (ECU responding) shows a value of 0 (which I believe will block adaptation)
'New' dash Block 22 values 0,0,1,0

Unfortunately, there's little information I can get from the old dash, as it's showing an internal memory error now (due to being corrupted). I've set the soft coding to match what I suspect is correct using VCDS, but I wondered if the replacement dash has to be 'virginised' (mode 4 - or as new) in order to adapt it.

I am reluctant to spend any more money with people who 'should' be able to do it, but would appreciate any advice from forum members.

Happy to pay anyone local who can fix it (Leeds, West Yorkshire area)

Cheers
Andy

[prj]

You need to read the EEPROM on the new cluster, modify and write it back, to reset the cluster to "brand new" mode.

Alternatively, you can also clone the EEPROM off of the new cluster into the old cluster, probably might want to change the SKC, you will also have to reset the thing so it will adapt.

If the old cluster won't let you write via OBD anymore, you will have to desolder the chip, and write it in a programmer.
You do have a programmer and experience in SMD soldering, right? If not - LOL at trying to mess with this in the first place without having the tools to clean up the mess (sorry, I am not helping).

So basically - all this is just sitting down and doing work (at least for me). But I think an Auto electrician is not what you need. You need a tuner... any tuner worth his salt will fix this for you. Not going to be cheap though.

[teknobod]

Cheers prj,

Hindsight is a wonderful thing!!!!

I am competent with soldering tools and have also dabbled programming eeproms (I have a Willem programmer), but hope it doesn't come to that. I wasn't planning this hence didn't realise any tools to fix it would be needed!! The whole point of getting the Auto Sparky (who also does remaps etc) was purely to adapt the replacement cluster as I didn't have the SKC for it and he was recommended as having dealer level diagnostic kit. (I now have the pin but am unable to adapt the cluster)

I can still write to the old cluster via OBD, so could theoretically rewrite the old dash with a dump from the replacement cluster. (I now have dumps from both clusters to return to where I am now should it go more pear shaped)

If I can identify which hex address stores the cluster 'mode' and SKC, I could update it to 'brand new' change the SKC and try to adapt it.

Failing that, I can get a local firm to 'virginise' the replacement cluster, but just need someone in the know to confirm that this era of dash (immo3 RB4 crypto) needs to be 'virginised' to adapt otherwise I'm just throwing away more money.

Andy

[prj]

I wasn't planning this hence didn't realise any tools to fix it would be needed!!

The whole idea is to be well prepared.
When I flash an ECU, I also always have a set of tools and know the exact process to do, if the flash goes **** up. Same with a cluster. You should be prepared to go solder at the thing - if you can still write via OBD II though, then you should just write the original dump back.
Also, that's like number one rule - always save the original, so you are able to return back to where you started from.

Anyway, you probably know that /now/

For mileage correction (at least) you need to virginise it.
To adapt it to the vehicle, I actually don't think you do... You need the SKC from the _old_ cluster and from the _new_ cluster.
When you do the Channel 50 adaptation, you need the _old_ cluster SKC. The one that is stored in the ECU EEPROM.

When that "auto electrician turned tuner" disabled your immobilizer, he could have done a generic flash to the EEPROM inside the ECU.
If he did that, you are f*cked. Because the old cluster won't work, since the SKC is now different in the ECU and in the cluster, and you can't adapt the new cluster because you don't know the old SKC.

Long story short - you need to read the ECU EEPROM, get the SKC, and use that as the "old cluster SKC" for channel 50.

Good luck

[teknobod]

I wasn't flashing the EEPROM, just reading it.

He used VAG Commander to disable the immobiliser and the ECM SKC hasn't changed (I know because I had read it previously), so I don't think that's the problem.

I now have the old (original ECM) SKC, and the new cluster SKC, so in theory, it should adapt.

I guess I'll have to bite the bullet, get the cluster virginised and try adapting it again.


(You don't need to virginise it to change the mileage! )

[prj]

I wasn't flashing the EEPROM, just reading it.

He used VAG Commander to disable the immobiliser and the ECM SKC hasn't changed (I know because I had read it previously), so I don't think that's the problem.

I now have the old (original ECM) SKC, and the new cluster SKC, so in theory, it should adapt.

I guess I'll have to bite the bullet, get the cluster virginised and try adapting it again.


(You don't need to virginise it to change the mileage! )

For changing the mileage you have to basically reset the mileage to zero.
Not sure exactly what you mean by "virginising" it, since pretty much any info the cluster stores is stored in the EEPROM.

If the EEPROM contents are changed to what they are from factory on a brand new cluster, it's a brand new cluster.
No black magic involved, as AFAIK the Immo3 clusters don't have any more non-volatile memory.

P.S.
From what you are writing, yes, it should adapt.
But I can't verify if everything you are writing is correct. I'd still say one of the keys is wrong, because if you have the PIN #s from both clusters there is no problem swapping them whatsoever.

[teknobod]

Virginising a dash refers to changing the 'mode' as illustrated in this Ross_Tech page:

Immo3-measuring-blocks
Block 23 Field 4 (Immobiliser Status), a virgin dash would be mode 4, an adapted dash is mode 6.

I don't think the keys need to be coded as you add them after adapting the dash. (Although I could be wrong)

Andy

[prj]

Virginising a dash refers to changing the 'mode' as illustrated in this Ross_Tech page:

Immo3-measuring-blocks
Block 23 Field 4 (Immobiliser Status), a virgin dash would be mode 4, an adapted dash is mode 6.

I don't think the keys need to be coded as you add them after adapting the dash. (Although I could be wrong)

Andy

This is also just a few values in the EEPROM.
Though really, you should not need to do this, are you 100% sure that the SKC for the ECU is correct?
Have you thought about the fact that the high and low bytes can be swapped in a 16 bit code if the software is not doing it's job right?

[teknobod]

I do agree with you fella that it should work.

Going back to my original post, I think that this is the reason:

If I check measuring block 22 in instruments using VCDS, the second block (ECU responding) shows a value of 0 (which I believe will block adaptation)
'New' dash Block 22 values 0,0,1,0

Two separate tools have been used to read out the code in the engine ECU and both returned the same value, but I agree this is no guarantee.

To be honest, I'm at the stage now that I'll just get the cluster virginised, and if it still doesn't adapt, I'm thinking that the problem lies with the engine ECU.

Unfortunately, people with the correct skills and knowledge of this sort of thing are few and far between.

Andy

[ManiacuV6]

If you still need help give me an PM. Can help you.

[teknobod]

All sorted!!

[brianb]

how?

[newsh]

how?

+1^^

[teknobod]

Unfortunately, no-one seemed to know (or was willing to tell me) whether the dash needed to be virginised in order to be adapted, so in the end I bit the bullet and had it virginised by a local company (who coincidentally did confirm to me that I would not be able to adapt a dash that wasn't new or virginised).


However, that wasn't the end of the problem.

The information here Ross-tech Immo3 measuring-blocks is the key to getting it working (along with the knowledge about cluster modes above)

From my original post:

If I check measuring block 22 in instruments using VCDS, the second block (ECU responding) shows a value of 0 (which I believe will block adaptation)

I discovered that I had to re-enable the immobiliser in the engine ECU which changed the 0 value to 1 in field 2 of the Instruments measuring block 22 (ECU Responding), thus allowing the 2 controllers to communicate.

But, again that wasn't the end of the problem.

Even though I had managed to read the SKC from the engine ECU, I was unable to login using the aquired SKC.

The other thing that will block adaptation is any fault codes stored in the controllers or non 0 values in Instrument measuring block 24 (Cluster Lock Time, ECU Lock Time and Transponder Lock Time).

What was misleading, was the fact that all these values were 0 (minutes) with the 'new' cluster installed. With the old cluster fitted, all values were 255.

In order to clear the timers, the ignition needs to be switched on, so with the old cluster installed, I attached a battery charger to the car and left it powered on in my garage for 4.5 hours!!

Once the timers had cleared, I tried to enter the Engine ECU SKC and it worked! Eureka..
I left the ignition on, disconnected the old cluster, installed the new cluster, performed the adaptation for new cluster as per Ross Tech's site and it worked worked fine. All keys were then matched succesfully and because the cluster mileage had been reset to 0 at the same time as the 'virginisation', I was also able to input the correct mileage.(one useful tip when applying the mileage is to change the soft coding of the cluster to use a country code where mileages are measured in kilometers (eg Canada), enter the mileage, then reset the coding back to UK)

Job done.

I hope this serves to help anyone who finds themselves in the same predicament in future.

I've taken a dump of the new dash and hope to write this to my 'trashed' cluster in order to make it usable again, although I'll make a jig to connect it rather than doing it in the car!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[prj]

So the problem was caused by force disabling the immo in the ECU first of all, causing logins to fail.
Nice to know. I am still quite positive you don't actually need to virginise the cluster to do an Immo3 cluster swap, unless you've screwed around with things.

The only problem that remained IIRC was mileage correction.