Electrical Help Please

[1781cc]

Ok, in my bid to solve the electrical drain I had a mobile electrician come out and strip the old clifford alarm out of the car, since then I appear to have lost electric windows, heating, indicators, etc...

They came back out and have traced things back through the car, it all apparently points towards relay 213 not receiving power from the ignition switch, apparently the cable splits off from the drivers side over to the passenger side and then into three cables, but not sure where or how?

They tested the electrics by powering post 213 relay and everything works, so its to do with the load reducer while the car turns over and its cabling to the relay. incidentally they replaced the 213 relay even though it was ok

They are coming back next week to fix this, but I don't understand how this has happened when everything worked before, any suggestions on where to look to get this sorted and back to working as it did before?

I am literally banging my head trying to sort this out, I just want a normal working car again

[UrS4boy]

It is very possible that your ignition switch is fooked and needs replacing.

While, the ignition key is in the START position, power to the headlights, etc. is cut out directly by the ignition switch (See below) in addition, the J59/"213" relay kills power to the several fuses. As a result, a failed J59/"213" Load Reduction Relay can cause all sorts of havoc.

NOTE: A failed ignition switch that fails to communicate with a perfectly good J59/"213" load reduction relay will have the same negative impacts (plus more, e.g. leaving the starter engaged after the engine has started).

http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4s6/msgs/300411.phtml

C4 J59 relay connection diagram:

[UrS4boy]

Specifically for a B3/B4 the wire from the ignition switch to the J59 Load Reduction Relay is black with a yellow stripe:

[1781cc]

Thanks mate, this sounds exactly the problem, they were talking about tracing the black and yellow wire last night but it got too dark even with head torches.

I've seen a replacement guide pdf for doing the ignition switch so I think I will head to TPS and order the part today and try to tackle it over the weekend

Thanks for direction and info, very much appreciated, I'll update the thread when I've done it

[1781cc]

Got a new switch today from TPS, black one in stock, nice nice, took the cluster out and everything else following these instructions:

http://12v.org/urs/IgnitionSwitchReplacementDIY.pdf

Then ran out of light, so will finish off the job tomorrow

And yes, the battery is disconnected!

That PDF is hella helpful

[1781cc]

New switch fitted, car starts ok, same as before, all electrics still dead :-(

I am getting to the end of my tether with this one.

Any other ideas?

Lee

[newsh]

They've pulled a wire off while removing the alarm, or failed to remake one of the circuits that the immobiliser was breaking, they need to trace the wiring and repair.

It should be easy enough if, as you say, the 213 relay can be powered and everything works!

[newsh]

Have a good look under the fuse box to see if there's a red connector dangling which should be plugged up onto a spade connector.

The best way to do this is to take out the driver's seat, lay a few cushions on the floor and get in there on your back with a good torch.

[1781cc]

Thanks mate, I'll pull the car out of the garage on Thursday when I am back, but they are coming back Thursday anyway to work on it again, I'll try and check before though. Electricians are CM auto electrical, Northampton based, anyone else used them before? Seem like a good bunch of lads and have been out once to correct the issue but ran out of light, just hope it can be sorted this time

[UrS4boy]

New switch fitted, car starts ok, same as before, all electrics still dead :-( Any other ideas? Lee

At least you have eliminated the ignition switch as the culprit.

Now you have to focus on the J59 "213" load reduction relay and/or the wiring to/from it.

1. Change the 213/J59 relay for a new or known to be good one and see what happens.

It is in position 5 in the underbonnet relay panel:

It is the "Relief relay" just behind the spare fuse holder:



here it is, just hiding in the dark:



Here it is out of the panel:



2. If a new/good 213 doesn't solve the problem, it is the wiring to/from the four pins on the 213.

To test this, you or the sparks have check for continuity between the "E1" starter switch pin "X" and the J59/213 relay pin socket for the "25/85 ". There has to be a good connection there.



Assuming that connection to the ignition switch is good, now you need to check for continuity between the 27/86 relay pin socket and ground, i.e. something close by that is structural metal. No ground connection, no worky.



Assuming that you have a ground connection, now you need to look at the connections on the "30" and "87" pins. Switching your multimeter to 20V DC, check for 12V on pin 30 socket in the relay panel. No 12V = no worky. You might be able to check continuity between the "87" pin socket and ground but one way to check this would be to jumper the "30" pin socket and the "87" pin socket with two spade connectors and a short piece of wire, something like these examples (not in the right location for you situation). If you had 12V in the pin 30 socket, you should have power to everything that you are missing. If not, the problem is the wiring *FROM* pin socket "87". That might need the "sparks".





REFEFERENCE:

[1781cc]

UrS4boy thanks so much for the detailed reply and guidance, I know that took some time out of your day and appreciate the help, so I am grateful!

The car is sealed in the garage now till Thursday as I am working on London now and staying over, but I will get onto this as soon as I am back.

Incidentally, a replacement working 213 was placed in the car and made no difference so I think it will be the other checks that I undertake.

Are you a sparky by trade? How did you accumulate this knowledge? Moving parts I get, static parts too, but electrics just seems like black magic lol