Coupe comfort windows

[UrS4boy]

DWA -DiebstahlWarnAnlage - antitheft alarm

433,92Mhz - European market, 315Mhz - US market.

8L0 862 257 DWA and remote [limited functionality*] (433,92 Mhz)
8L0 862 257 A DWA
8L0 862 257 B DWA and remote(315 MHz)
8L0 862 257 D just remote(433,92 Mhz)
8L0 862 257 E just central locking
8L0 862 257 G DWA and remote(433,92 MHz)
8L0 862 257 H DWA
8L0 862 257 K just remote(433 MHz)
8L0 862 257 L just central locking
8L0 862 257 M DWA and remote(315 MHz)
8L0 862 257 N DWA and remote(315 MHz)
8L0 862 257 P DWA and remote(??? MHz)
8L0 862 257 Q DWA and remote(??? MHz)

Antitheft alarm = Horn on T6ae/4 and T16/1 connection to the J219 starter interlock relay





J219 Starter Interlock Relay info:

http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4s6/msgs/270532.phtml

[S2central.net]

So I started having a look at the plethora of ever-so-slightly different schematics for central locking across the years for Coupe & Cabrio but I am not finding any official 'comfort' features (that would auto open/close the (sun)roof or windows with remote control) on the diagrams - right up to MY2000 in case of the Cabrio. There is some connections between the central locking & roof controllers on the Cabrio but as far as I can tell that is only for logic on the various contact switches that prevent the alarm being activated with doors open.

For comfort to work - a controller has to act upon pins 3&5 or 1&2 of each electric window switch in order to place the correct polarity of 12V across each window motor to drive it up or down for X seconds. I can see those connections in place for the drivers side from the window relay module, but this only for 1TWD operation... Remember that 1TWU was made obsolete circa 1992 cos of some US legislation. Newer Audis use current monitoring for 1TWD & 1TWU to determine when the end point is reached - not a timer like the old Audi 80 wiring.

I will also say that its possible that I missed something across the multitude of diagram variants for different models and years so if someone has better insight on comfort function as a factory option in some territory on this I am all ears - my schematics are all for UK market so its possible the UK Cabrio never got the comfort option and it may well exist on US or EU models.

I will also say it looks possible to build a custom module for comfort on the Audi B3/B4 in general, but it would involve a fair bit of thought to make it (1) safe and (2) simple & tidy to integrate with OE wiring - without both of those features, it wouldn't be sufficiently attractive.

One would need to start with a central locking controller from a vehicle that does support the comfort feature - I suggest a B5 or C4 from roughly the same era (ideally late enough so it has OBD connectivity with options to enable/disable comfort etc) to have a good chance of wiring & connector compatibility.

AFAIK - the single or dual air-line outlet is irrelevant as long as the dual port controller is never wanting to blow on one port and suck on the other at the same time...

I think the little port is for the fuel flap (and rear hatch / trunk) while the big port is for the doors but I could be wrong. So on an Audi 80 we would just blank off the little port and T everything as normal off a single outlet from the pump controller.

HTH, but apologies if it just adds to the confusion - I would need to start looking at B5 and C4 wiring next - when was 'comfort' introduced to those platforms ?

[S2central.net]

Dave - there is no communication in that diagram - the Q10 point is just a common 12V connection on that red/blue wire from the window/roof relay up to the sunroof switch.

Not Paul but I have central locking pump knowledge. Need to know the year of the A6 pump and its PN, if possible.

Your window control module might not want to communicate with the central locking pump it if is like this J139:

[S2central.net]

Scribbled a quick circuit there and it wouldn't be pretty to implement comfort on all the windows in sunroof as you would need a pair of DPST relays to hijack each motor with control of polarity (for up/down or open/close) coming from a central module that is activated by the "comfort-able" pump controller (when told to lock or unlock). It could be done quite tidily by 'hair-pinning' a connection from each motor to a central location - but it wouldn't be for the faint-hearted unless all of the connectors used where plug and play.

[S2central.net]

Just looked at comfort schematics for an MY99 C5 shaped A6 and its a completely different animal where each electric window motor has its own mini-controller - each of which has two pins linked back to the central convenience unit which is absolutely for the automatic open & close feature. The doors are locked by solenoids on this generation of system though so it wouldn't integrate with the vacuum system on the Audi 80 models.

Will look at C4 or B5 when I get the chance.

[S2central.net]

So... the B5 platform doesn't have 'comfort' feature either - seems to me that B6 Audi A4 and C5 Audi A6 are the earliest that we find any mention of the central convenience module (CCM) which some folk unwittingly call the 'comfort control module'.

So..... what I want to know is where the notion ever came from that any kind of comfort closure feature could be easily added to an Audi 80 ?

[UrS4boy]

So..... what I want to know is where the notion ever came from that any kind of comfort closure feature could be easily added to an Audi 80 ?

Personally, I had assumed that the original poster (OP) was talking about the window control module that a) provides safety for little brothers whose head would otherwise be squashed by an older sister manning the back seat window control and b) allows the windows and sunroof to be closed when the key is held in the door lock in the locked position for a few seconds. I did not assume anything related to the distributed window control in the later C4s and the B5s and C5s and beyond.

[S2central.net]

OK now we are getting warm - looking at schematics for an MY98 D2 (Audi A8) - that has vacuum operated doors but the V94 controller has two pins that connect two each electric window motor - more correctly I assume that will be a mini controller at each window motor. I need to see the electric window schematics next, but its possible to see how 'comfort' operation could be enabled with correct flavour of the V94 controller from D2 Audi A8.

[S2central.net]

Conceptually I can see how this could be made work with the right D2 controller and a pair of wires from that to each window motor that each has an additional changeover relay module added. The last bit is critically important as you cannot just place 12V across the B3/B4 window motor due to the way the switches hold each pin to 0V unless a human is pressing the button to diverts one pin to be 12V, and obviously the pin polarity of that determines the motor direction.

The sunroof is much the same trick, but its more complex for those with the 'pre-select' sunroof which has a control module (J245) rather more like that of the D2 cars - it *might* be possible to retrofit that straight over, but as a minimum you are looking to get a pair of wires up to the ceiling which is always going to be fiddly.

I might explore this further on my Coupe while all the electrics are still in tact - I just need an 8L0862257G controller to get started.

[S2central.net]

Then again - seeing the price of those pumps on fleabay puts me off a bit - especially as need to source keys to be programmed for test purposes - and need at least the connectorised ends of the D2 central locking loom to hack together a test rig... If someone has the parts I would be happy to borrow them in the interests of science.

Meantime I can certainly build the changeover relay module that would need to sit with each window motor... would seem wise to check that the D2 controller delivers 12V & 0V logic on pins T16/15 and T12/11 first of all though.

[recurveandy]

Paul/Dave

Some interesting reading, thank you
I didn't get any time on this today but will try to gather some more info on the pump and relay tomorrow

I am certainly happy to be guinea pig to get something working

[S2central.net]

I found some nice DPDT relays rated at 10A which should be perfect to test out the theory so I ordered a few to play with. They are designed specifically for automotive applications and the data sheet even calls out electric window control so that's a good sign.

[S2central.net]

Parts arrived today... built and tested really simple little circuit which fits into a very small box (smaller than matchbox). Comes with three wiring tails which would be connectorised as follows - imagine cutting the cable going to the window motor and this box sitting in line with it and another tail which tracks through the door grommet to where it would pickup the control signal from the convenience module.

Again to stress - I am assuming the convenience module provides polarised 12V signal on windows UP or windows DOWN signal and that it would be held long enough for the windows to travel the full distance (or as long as remote control button is held).

If the convenience module just provides a short pulse to each window (assuming the motor has timer & intelligence on the later 'comfort' cars) then a timer module will need to be added but it should fit inside same tiny package.

I just need a suitable convenience module to test this with - or happy to lend it someone with one and a car to test with. Once tested it should be simples to get a little PCB made to fit in that package. Annoyingly the little relay module is not entirely on a 2.5mm pin spacing so you can't build it on strip board - had to do some ugly soldering direct onto relay pins for this dirty wee prototype.

Each window would need to be wired with one of these modules... suppose I better give it a name now - hows about the Audi 80 convenience module adapter - or CMA for short... not to be confused with the culchie music awards :-)

[S2central.net]

Forgot a pic - here goes alongside a 50p coin for scale.

IMG_3017.JPG

The red tail would connect to Window switch and the green tail connects to the window motor. The other tail would connect to the central convenience module.

Basically it works like this - it's a pair of SPDT relays in the same package...

When the relay is not energised, the connectivity from switch to motor is passed straight thru for normal up or down operation.

When the relay is energised (by 12V) then the motor is controlled by the convenience module - this is polarity sensitive so the relay can be energised in a positive or negative way such that you get up or down activation of the window.

I can post up a circuit if anyone is interested but like I say - until tested with a suitable Audi CCM it's not known if this will work by itself or it a timer needs to be added as well.

[macspring]

just to mention to help you benchmark your ideas, the UrS6 has one touch down and one touch up on the two front windows, and one touch down only on the rear windows. Mentioned in case that helps or the Central Locking unit / wiring dirges help.

Door locks are vacuum operated, with the boot and the petrol flap.

On the oem key fob one press to unlock the driver's doors, or two quick presses to unlock everything.

The car also has a nice feature on the door, a rocker switch that the driver can press to either lock or unlock all of the items. - Would be nice to be able to programme this to lock automatically when the car exceeds say 15mph rather than have to do it manually.

The above may or may not help.