Nitrous experience wanted!!

[Jeffer]

=For real=

I have no clue.

Sorry

[T.F.S.]

hi


lol


oh and just to make this sound a bit stuipd

i want to do this without changeing ANY of the engine internals

how long will this engine last??
bearing in mind my engine is weaker than your audi engines and has covered 100,0000 miles already

so thats 204bhp (if my car has the same power as when it rolled of the production line) to around 450bhp

any n20 experts??

regards, brian

[Mihnea]

Originally posted by T.F.S.
hi guys

so just one more question...

i dont have an audi, i have a calibra turbo 2.0 16v turbo, i think it is a lot weaker than your engines

i am considering upping the power from 204bhp to 320bhp with a chip (boost increased from 8psi to 22psi)

i also want to input 125bhp of n20

how long will it take to blow my engine apart????

regards, brian

I don't know the turbo calibras very well but I can tell for sure that the stock turbo can't do 320 bhp. You can count on about 260 HP from your stock engine with a chip, then you'll need a custom remap for some possibly additional 20 hp and that's all. The turbo will be at its end, possibly before that.

HTH,
Mihnea

[T.F.S.]

hi

i was waiting for a reply saying.....
the n20 will blow the engine the first time you use it!

i have something to admit, ive been running that sort of power on the standard calibra engine for about a year now!!!
the chip is....
http://www.wallaceperformance.co.uk/phase3_C20.html
and i have a n20 kit from www.noswizard.com

my calibra is the fastest in the uk (as far as i know) and i have completed a 1/4 mile in 12.9, go to movies section on
www.astraturbo.com

i hope to improve on this soon.

i just wanted to make a point to some of the guys on this forum, if my "weak" vauxhall engine that has covered over a hundred thousand miles can safely take 125bhp of n20 on top of a 320bhp chip then what is stopping you guys fitting it to your newer more powerful engines?

since ive had my kit fitted (for over a year) its been great, ive had more power than i could ever wish for
i have a progressive system and it is not to be confused with any american kits that are avalible on the market today

remapping the ecu is totally unnessasary, you do not need to retard the ignition on a turbo car with a progressive system unless you are going for really big shots of gas (150+) and the n20 will last 2 mins 30 secs on 100bhp jets, that is a hell of a lot of full throttle time, on my way to work in the morning i only use around 5 secs of it so the bottle lasts weeks

i wish you guys the best of luck in modding your cars for extra power whatever way you choose to do it

regards, brian

[Pisobiker]

T.F.S.

Apart from what stated by Mihnea that seems absolutely correct (you cannot expect your original turbocharger to manage + 57% of power relyably) big problem is to find out which is the peak torque your engine is capable to withstand (pistons, con-rods, crankshaft, drivetrain etc. etc.). An indicative torque figure for a 320 hp 2.0 L turbo engine could be as follows:

2000 rpm ~ 200 Nm
3000 rpm ~ 450 Nm
4000 rpm ~ 440 Nm
5000 rpm ~ 410 Nm
6000 rpm ~ 380 Nm
7000 rpm ~ 300 Nm

which means a power figure as follows;

2000 rpm ~ 57 Hp
3000 rpm ~ 192 Hp
4000 rpm ~ 250 Hp
5000 rpm ~ 291 Hp
6000 rpm ~ 324 Hp
7000 rpm ~ 298 Hp

So, apart from turbine problems, your engine will need to manage 450 Nm of peak torque. Let's say that you find out for sure your engine will be capable of withstanding this torque safely, than if you find the way to keep this value of torque all the way up to redline you could get something as follows:

2000 rpm ~ 450 Nm
3000 rpm ~ 450 Nm
4000 rpm ~ 450 Nm
5000 rpm ~ 450 Nm
6000 rpm ~ 450 Nm
7000 rpm ~ 450 Nm

which means (in terms of power):

2000 rpm ~ 128 Hp
3000 rpm ~ 192 Hp
4000 rpm ~ 256 Hp
5000 rpm ~ 320 Hp
6000 rpm ~ 384 Hp
7000 rpm ~ 447 Hp

But all this means that your N2O system must deliver different power outputs at different rpms to meet torque requirements as follows

2000 rpm ~ +71 Hp
3000 rpm ~ +0 Hp
4000 rpm ~ +6 Hp
5000 rpm ~ +29 Hp
6000 rpm ~ +60 Hp
7000 rpm ~ +150 Hp

which will probably involve a very complex ECU controlled multi stage N2O system.

A tipical N2O power output behaviour is a power increase that is maximum at lower rpm decreasing quite linearly as rpm increase. This because total amount of N2O used by engine (constant injection pressure) is roughly proportiona to amount of time intake valves are open.
So, for example, in a athmospherical or a supercharged engine, where torque curve is much "flatter" compared to the one of turbocharged engines, the extra torque provided by a simple single stage N2O system will probably even make resultant of torque flatter, so that, once defined max amount of nitrous injected at low rpm (+ fuel, of course) it will probably be fine at high rpm as well.


Hope those examples will make clear some basic aspects of the problem.


Marco

[Pisobiker]

Just saw your last post, Brian.
Took some time to write my one down, you answered yourself in the meantime.
I'm very impressed that your original turbocharger is capable of managing that much power increase (I mean the 320 Hp stage)
What kind of turbo is it?

Marco

[Mihnea]

Originally posted by Pisobiker

I'm very impressed that your original turbocharger is capable of managing that much power increase (I mean the 320 Hp stage)
What kind of turbo is it?

Marco

Heh, it's no wonder for me if his BHP was measured by AMD, IMHO no calibra turbocharger is capable of 320 HP but oh well, let them kids have fun, they'll understand someday!


Mihnea, who won't ever have NOS but who'll have 420+ HP anyway, just look at the signature line :nana:

[T.F.S.]

hi

pisobiker
wow, you know you stuff!!

the chip company supply the power figure and i myself doubt the output, i had a phase 1 chip before this one that boosted to 16/18psi and made 260bhp@the crank
this chip does not feel like another 60bhp allthough the car overboosts to 22psi then falls to 19psi
the turbo is a standard kkk26 (i think that is what it is called) so you can see where im getting my power from (n20)

mihnea
im just pointing out that if my engine can take this amount of power then the door is open for you guys
ive used the route of conventional tuneing and thats fine if that is what you want, i try to keep every bit i buy for the car on a strict budget, it has cost me less than £4500 inc car (£2000)


regards, brian

[Mihnea]

Brian, if my car had to cost me £4500 (which it never will, maybe it'll be half of that) it would have to have at least 700 HP. I'm expecting more than half of that, about 450 if everything goes well, and once again, it will never cost me more than £2500.

Cheers,

Mihnea

[T.F.S.]

hi

these mods cost less than £2500?

Soon to have AAN ECU/ignition system (5 coils), custom intake manifold, custom K26/27/29 racing turbo, RS2 exhaust manifold, ported and polished head, custom intercooler (RS2 is just too small), HUGE injectors, custom ECU remap (home made), almost totally free-flowing exhaust and lots of other goodies. Target HP is above 420, the more the better :-)

injectors are about £100 a piece, inercooler maybe £300, the ecu system i bought for my previous car cost me about £800 inc loom, turbo is about £1200, ecu remap on rr about £300?, exhaust £300, port and polish £100 if you send it yourself?, lots of other goodies coist £?, one off inlet manifold £300+?, exhaust manifold £?

the quattro is a legend of a car but i dont think you can buy all of those mods and have them fitted for less than £2500?
on a calibra or any other turbo vauxhall these mods would cost about £4000

regards, brian

[Mihnea]

Brian, maybe you didn't understand what I do for a living? All these mods are going to be done by myself, the ECU mod I'm doing it myself, the head port and polish job will be done by me, the IM as well, and not to count the good deals I have on parts that I will have to buy, such as the turbo, exhaust manifold, ECU/wiring loom/coil packs, etc etc.

Oh and £100 for an injector is VERY expensive, if you guys are buying them for such prices in the UK, I'll resell them to you brand new for £75 and I will still be making money on them....

I wasn't speaking generally but rather for my own case.

Cheers,

Mihnea:nana:

[Pisobiker]

In my opinion in this particular kind of topic it's not possible or correct to say which of the tuning methods are good and which are bad, nor telling which is best. They just are different, behave in a different way and must be managed in different ways.
Chemical "overcharging" is a very effective, simple and relatively echonomical way to get higher performances out of an engine. It's neither a modern system (widely used in world war 2 in aircrafts) nor an obsolete one (see newer multi-stage, ECU controlled systems).
I think the only way to talk of it using with common sense is just to poin out pros and cons. Then everybody can take hes own decisions.

In my particular case, living in Italy where any (and I enphatyze "ENY") tuning is just outlaw :mad: , managing this kind of system is very hard.
Another problem is that here N2O is not available to everyone.
Not last, always for my own (very personal) taste and driving stile, I would never be good enaugh to use it in a "wise" manner, probably needing a "2 times a day refill"

Marco

[S2 Ant]

At Marco!!!

Rahh you'd have to use it loads to need to refill that much LOL

Luckily I know someone that races a rocket car, so has ample amounts of the stuff, so nice cheap refills

LOL

True tho it is all a matter of opinion.

I just cant wait to get my exhaust sorted and one of those ECU's

[T.F.S.]

hi

mihnea
if this is your trade you are in a very good position to get these items fitted for much less cash than it would for me (or anyone else) all of my prices were approximations.

as ive said good luck with your plans to reach 420+

pisobiker
as you say its all a matter of personal prefrence on whatever mod you choose to reach whatever power level you are aiming for.
provided you get the power you want, it should not matter to anyone but youself how you went about it or how much money it cost


kind regards, brian