How to achieve fast spool up of turbo

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  • S4turbo
    S2Forum Fanatic
    • Nov 2005
    • 81
    • Country: Norway

    #16
    All the tuner books I've read that consert NA engines say you move the torque/HP curve towards higher rpm if you shorten the runners orport them too much. I think the main reason is that in order to pack the cylinders with at much air as possible, you need a long, narrow header in order to get high air velocity into the cylinder at low rpm. The air will then continue to fill the cylinder even when the piston has started to move upvards. With high rpm the long, narrow header will be an obstruction, but less so on a turbo charged engine.

    This is why they use dual channel headers (is that what its called), where the air takes the long route at low rpm and a longer route at higher rpm.

    Hm, maybe such an intake would help on a turbo engine as well? I guess all the high powered Audi V8 engines uses this type of header?

    J

    Originally posted by maRS2
    trying to think logical
    I would say on a TURBO CAR

    shorter intake= less volume to pump for the turboto reach target pressure= more air earlier in the cylinder= more exhaust earlier= faster turbo spining with less volume to pump to reach target pressure= more air in the cylinder= more exhaust= etc ...
    For me it look like earlier spool up or what?

    My 2 cent's thinking. might be wrong. This is only for turbo car.

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    • maRS2
      S2Forum Addict
      • Oct 2003
      • 366
      • Home: France Current: Thailand

      #17
      Your right for NA engine but i think it does not work for turbo engine look at all rally race car subaru, evo, audi S1 they all have as short as possible route from turbo to intake.
      RS2 chip by mihnea,PKM short IM, forge dump valve, 3" custom stainless exhaust, 18"X8" Porsche 996 rims, conti contact 245/35 Front 225/40 Rear, QR sport top mount, Powerflex bushes, aloy sub frame bushes, neuspeed 19mm RARB,Hard tranny mount, V8 torsen on RS2

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      • S4turbo
        S2Forum Fanatic
        • Nov 2005
        • 81
        • Country: Norway

        #18
        One good example of long headers is the IMSA header. So it is not easy to know what is right or wrong. Well, 730 HP doesn't seem very wrong, but I would expect a race engine to be optimized towards high rpm use. So they are willing to sacrefice low end spool up, as the engine never runs in that area. Thus short headers?

        Hard to know really.

        J
        Originally posted by maRS2
        Your right for NA engine but i think it does not work for turbo engine look at all rally race car subaru, evo, audi S1 they all have as short as possible route from turbo to intake.

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        • maRS2
          S2Forum Addict
          • Oct 2003
          • 366
          • Home: France Current: Thailand

          #19
          IMSA is track and no problem about lag as you know evry turn and know braking and accelerating point's and that's why I gave you example of rally car that need as less lag as possible as it's instictive drive and also they have the intake restriction that don't allow them to have high rpm HP
          RS2 chip by mihnea,PKM short IM, forge dump valve, 3" custom stainless exhaust, 18"X8" Porsche 996 rims, conti contact 245/35 Front 225/40 Rear, QR sport top mount, Powerflex bushes, aloy sub frame bushes, neuspeed 19mm RARB,Hard tranny mount, V8 torsen on RS2

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          • maRS2
            S2Forum Addict
            • Oct 2003
            • 366
            • Home: France Current: Thailand

            #20
            Froma what I can see here the imsa car also had short intake
            p://www.audistory.24max.de/old1/eimsa.htm
            RS2 chip by mihnea,PKM short IM, forge dump valve, 3" custom stainless exhaust, 18"X8" Porsche 996 rims, conti contact 245/35 Front 225/40 Rear, QR sport top mount, Powerflex bushes, aloy sub frame bushes, neuspeed 19mm RARB,Hard tranny mount, V8 torsen on RS2

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            • maRS2
              S2Forum Addict
              • Oct 2003
              • 366
              • Home: France Current: Thailand

              #21
              RS2 chip by mihnea,PKM short IM, forge dump valve, 3" custom stainless exhaust, 18"X8" Porsche 996 rims, conti contact 245/35 Front 225/40 Rear, QR sport top mount, Powerflex bushes, aloy sub frame bushes, neuspeed 19mm RARB,Hard tranny mount, V8 torsen on RS2

              Comment

              • CR500Dom
                S2Forum Addict
                • Oct 2004
                • 237

                #22
                Originally posted by maRS2
                So why is most of the people say that those reverse inlet make the engine more responsive and give less turbo lag?
                Dont confuse runner length with Intake volume

                The reverse inlet manifold could have longer runners for better low end torque and faster port velocities, but with a smaller overall intake volume that gives better response everywhere with less lag

                You want the smallest possible intake ports and Intake volume, with the longest Primary runner length (For better VE) that will still give you enough flow to make your Top end Target HP

                HTH
                Dom

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                • maRS2
                  S2Forum Addict
                  • Oct 2003
                  • 366
                  • Home: France Current: Thailand

                  #23
                  when you say primary runner do you mean the 5 tube going from cylinder to manifold plenum?
                  RS2 chip by mihnea,PKM short IM, forge dump valve, 3" custom stainless exhaust, 18"X8" Porsche 996 rims, conti contact 245/35 Front 225/40 Rear, QR sport top mount, Powerflex bushes, aloy sub frame bushes, neuspeed 19mm RARB,Hard tranny mount, V8 torsen on RS2

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                  • CR500Dom
                    S2Forum Addict
                    • Oct 2004
                    • 237

                    #24
                    Originally posted by maRS2
                    when you say primary runner do you mean the 5 tube going from cylinder to manifold plenum?
                    Yes

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                    • maRS2
                      S2Forum Addict
                      • Oct 2003
                      • 366
                      • Home: France Current: Thailand

                      #25
                      Ok thanks CR500Dom all clear now
                      RS2 chip by mihnea,PKM short IM, forge dump valve, 3" custom stainless exhaust, 18"X8" Porsche 996 rims, conti contact 245/35 Front 225/40 Rear, QR sport top mount, Powerflex bushes, aloy sub frame bushes, neuspeed 19mm RARB,Hard tranny mount, V8 torsen on RS2

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                      • audiman
                        S2Forum Freak
                        • Jul 2003
                        • 4827
                        • Country: United Kingdom

                        #26
                        Mudcrabs indeed. WTF??

                        Quick spool up.... Mmmm.... how about buying some sort of anti lag device? Although these generally make cars run at gigher EGTs and can shorten the life span of a turbo/engine. Tubular manifolds dont always give better spool up. But IME, on my car, compared to Doug's with similar setups (CR/Turbo etc etc) the tubular manifold was slightly better for spool up.
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                        Tom C - www.rcmr.co.uk
                        Audi UR Quattro
                        Audi 100 C3 2.0 5 cyl 115ps
                        Audi S2 - 07k engine project aiming for 800ps
                        Audi B5 RS4 645ps 911nm

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