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  • K24-7200 hybrid and injectors

    Hi,

    if I make hybrid from original K24-7200, for let's say 420HP, will I lose low down torque?

    I have a plan to upgrade my engine to RS2 specs, and I know that RS2 turbo is good for about 360-380KS, but I want something around 420KS.

    I really like low down torque more than hi rev HP that is why I bought RS2 turbo. I want to do a little upgrade, but I'm afraid not to lose torque in favor of HP.

    Also, are BOSCH 0280155968 42LB 440CC Green giants enough for about 420HP using 7A FPR?

    Thanks a lot in advance.



    Audi URquattro 4.2l, Dodge Charger 7.3l, Golf 4 TDI 4Motion

  • #2
    What sort of power are you running currently and I'm guessing this is for your UR from your signature?

    A well set up RS2+ set up in the lighter UR chassis will be pretty wild and if you want torque you'll most certainly get it.

    I ran a straight RS2 K24 7200 in my 1300kg 3B which was converted to as close RS2 spec as is practical, that had a nicely ported head/inlet manifold and all the other bit's required to run that turbo, RS2 EM/IC and injectors, 7A FPR, 3" exhaust etc... The car was very quick and quite a handful on tight roads.

    Bosch 440's would support 420BHP if your using a 7A FPR, though personally I'd like a little more head room but mapped correctly they'd be fine.

    IMO it would be a lot of extra cost for very little real gain in real world performance and drivability.



    1989 B3 2.0 3A 80 quattro. Long term project.
    1992 C4 100 2.8 Avant quattro, daily driver.
    1995 RS2, MTM K26/7, 380 BHP conversion.
    1997 C4 2.8 30V quattro, currently breaking for spares.
    1991 MK2 Golf G60. For sale.
    1990 Corrado G60. Looking sad.

    Comment


    • #3
      The car is Audi 200 3B and will be converted to RS2 specs with 7A FPR.

      My goal is something between 400HP and 420HP, but not to sacrifice low down torque.



      Audi URquattro 4.2l, Dodge Charger 7.3l, Golf 4 TDI 4Motion

      Comment


      • #4
        Ahh okay, a 200 is a fair bit heavier. Still getting that extra 20 odd BHP is not going to be cheap and the stock RS2 turbo really is a torque monster.

        In a big heavy chassis like that I'd either want to go crazy and aim for 480 BHP or stick with a well mapped RS2 set up pushing out a good 380bhp.

        Are you retaining Motronic engine management?
        1989 B3 2.0 3A 80 quattro. Long term project.
        1992 C4 100 2.8 Avant quattro, daily driver.
        1995 RS2, MTM K26/7, 380 BHP conversion.
        1997 C4 2.8 30V quattro, currently breaking for spares.
        1991 MK2 Golf G60. For sale.
        1990 Corrado G60. Looking sad.

        Comment


        • #5
          Yes, Motronic will stay, just will do AAN ECU conversion before.

          200 is not so much heavier, as I can see URquattro is around 1350kg, 200 20V is 1520kg it is about 12% difference.

          Money is not a problem I just want to know will I lose low down torque and get bigger lag, making K24-7200 hybrid
          Audi URquattro 4.2l, Dodge Charger 7.3l, Golf 4 TDI 4Motion

          Comment


          • #6
            Okay, so your doing away with distributor which would be one of my concerns with going for more than a normal RS2+ set up so that's good, and was one of the costs I was factoring in.

            I'll be honest and say I'm a bit out of the loop with what's being done with RS2 turbo's these day's, however if the hot-side is left stock and up-grades are only to be done to the compressor with a more modern billet wheel of the same size I very much doubt you'll loose any low down torque.

            You will need those 440's as stock RS2 injectors max out at around 390/400BHP but as long as the car is going to be mapped by someone competent, I'd say go for it.

            They're great turbo's and if you want torque and drivability then you really can't beat them.
            1989 B3 2.0 3A 80 quattro. Long term project.
            1992 C4 100 2.8 Avant quattro, daily driver.
            1995 RS2, MTM K26/7, 380 BHP conversion.
            1997 C4 2.8 30V quattro, currently breaking for spares.
            1991 MK2 Golf G60. For sale.
            1990 Corrado G60. Looking sad.

            Comment


            • #7
              Maybe you are alright

              I already have remanufactured RS2 turbo and Bosch RS2 "replica" 0280155811 injectors, remanufactured too.

              If I can do reliable 370-380HP with this turbo and injectors using 7A 4.2 bar FPR, that will be enough for me




              Audi URquattro 4.2l, Dodge Charger 7.3l, Golf 4 TDI 4Motion

              Comment


              • #8
                If you already have the injectors and turbo in re-manufactured condition, then it would make sense to use them and get the car set up so it's making the most of the stock K24-7200 and RS2+ set up then see if your happy with the performance... Which I expect you will be.

                You could always upgrade in future.

                What are you doing for mapping and software?
                1989 B3 2.0 3A 80 quattro. Long term project.
                1992 C4 100 2.8 Avant quattro, daily driver.
                1995 RS2, MTM K26/7, 380 BHP conversion.
                1997 C4 2.8 30V quattro, currently breaking for spares.
                1991 MK2 Golf G60. For sale.
                1990 Corrado G60. Looking sad.

                Comment


                • #9
                  That make sense

                  I am thinking about generic chipset, because everything will be the same as RS2, except exhaust camshaft, but it is not a big deal. Also, it is not easy today to find someone who can do custom map for this car, at least near Serbia where I live.

                  Do you have some idea where I can find good RS2 chipped software?

                  Audi URquattro 4.2l, Dodge Charger 7.3l, Golf 4 TDI 4Motion

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Don't worry about the exhaust cam being stock, any generic chip sets you can find will for stock 3B/ABY cams, the RS2 exhaust cam whilst nice to have is not too important when your doing a conversion. The most important parts to have apart from the the obvious are the exhaust manifold and ideally a 3" down pipe, 2.75" would also do at a push.

                    Then really you want to keep the exhaust as simple as possible, I don't know what rules you have for an MOT in Russia? In some EU country's everything has to either be stock or have TUV or equivalent numbers which is a pain in the backside. In the UK we don't have such rules as long as everything is safe you can do pretty much what you want.

                    I ran a 3" pipe from the turbo to a 2.75" straight through back box to clear the subframe, it wasn't too loud but wasn't exactly quiet either.

                    It's always been hard to find someone to custom map Motronic, there's only a couple of places in the UK that can do it. I tried three different chipsets , TS Tunnig ,PRJ, and I got lucky and happened to get a set by a guy named Hoffer which was a custom map he did for 3B's which were really aggressive that he only sold for a short time. The TS software is okay though I think it might max out the injectors I got very high AFR's from it, too much fuel. The PRJ set were good but only boosted to 1.8 bar where as the Hoffer one's did 2 bar at just before 3KRPM.

                    You'll need a 3 Bar MAP sensor in the ECU if you've not already got one fitted as well as a chip set, you could try putting a wanted advert up for some second hand one's or try and find someone who stills sell's them or does live maps.
                    Last edited by K Simmonds; 3 September 2022, 17:49.
                    1989 B3 2.0 3A 80 quattro. Long term project.
                    1992 C4 100 2.8 Avant quattro, daily driver.
                    1995 RS2, MTM K26/7, 380 BHP conversion.
                    1997 C4 2.8 30V quattro, currently breaking for spares.
                    1991 MK2 Golf G60. For sale.
                    1990 Corrado G60. Looking sad.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I live in Serbia and MOT is not a problem here for this kind of upgrade. My Audi 200 already has very good complete dual stock exhaust after downpipe, so I will only do 3" downpipe.

                      I already have 3 bar MAP and tubular exhaust manifold, so the only problem is mapping

                      Do you maybe have some contacts, where i can try to find chipsets?

                      What do you think about 034motorsport?

                      https://store.034motorsport.com/chip...2-stage-1.html

                      Audi URquattro 4.2l, Dodge Charger 7.3l, Golf 4 TDI 4Motion

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Unfortunately I don't really have any contacts that offer chip set for S2's or RS2's. That 034 chip set looks okay, curve wise and doesn't seem short of power and torque.

                        EVen the though picture shows one chip there will two for Motronic, one for boost and one for fueling.
                        1989 B3 2.0 3A 80 quattro. Long term project.
                        1992 C4 100 2.8 Avant quattro, daily driver.
                        1995 RS2, MTM K26/7, 380 BHP conversion.
                        1997 C4 2.8 30V quattro, currently breaking for spares.
                        1991 MK2 Golf G60. For sale.
                        1990 Corrado G60. Looking sad.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hi, one question:
                          ​​​​​​What's the size of the hotside on this turbo?
                          #6 or #8

                          In the past my first RS2 setup turbo was a #6 RS2 turbo and later changed all turbo for new one with #8 size. Bigger Hotside.

                          Now the spool is little more but the response and performance is much greater HAHAHAHAHA
                          I run with a PRJ live remap with white 034MS injectors (10cc bigger than ADU stock's), ABY FPR, WT EM and full Supersprint exhaust

                          Ps. Waiting (searching) for WT inlet manifold
                          photobucket SUCKS
                          sigpic

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            It's a stock K24 7200 so it'll have a #6 turbine housing...

                            I've always wondered what an RS2 turbo with #8 hot-side would be like, what modifications have been done to the cold side?

                            Do you know if PRJ is still doing stuff for S2's?
                            1989 B3 2.0 3A 80 quattro. Long term project.
                            1992 C4 100 2.8 Avant quattro, daily driver.
                            1995 RS2, MTM K26/7, 380 BHP conversion.
                            1997 C4 2.8 30V quattro, currently breaking for spares.
                            1991 MK2 Golf G60. For sale.
                            1990 Corrado G60. Looking sad.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Nope Dimitri don't make more remaps ?

                              And normally, the ADU turbos will be #6 hotside, not #8

                              A lot of members don't want "my" #8 because a big lag and blablabla
                              photobucket SUCKS
                              sigpic

                              Comment

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