removing dizzy - turning engine to mark?

[s2dude]

Keep the faith
once you get her running sweetly everything will seem better and the bodywork wont seem so much of a mare to add to the running problems.
One step at a time!

ok. Are you absolutely sure you have put the dizzy back to perfect timing? Are all of the timing marks on the car inline?

The G42 fault I had on my car a while ago. It relates to the sensor mounted on the top of the intlet manifold and seeing as though you had that off, its possible you may have damaged a wire or soldered connection.

Best thing to do initially is to remove the rubber boot from it, visually check the connections and then get your soldering iron out and resolder both joints with some nice fresh solder in case you have a dry joint.
This fixed my fault and a few others on here as its a common problem.

Though I cant see this stopping your car starting, it could cause running problems I would think.

[Knight Rider S4]

This is a challenging fault you have ah !! you about on tuesday during the day?.....as i am free then i could bring S2 down and we could swap parts over till we get the right part which needs replaced

[Nj]

Keep the faith
once you get her running sweetly everything will seem better and the bodywork wont seem so much of a mare to add to the running problems.
One step at a time!

ok. Are you absolutely sure you have put the dizzy back to perfect timing? Are all of the timing marks on the car inline?

The G42 fault I had on my car a while ago. It relates to the sensor mounted on the top of the intlet manifold and seeing as though you had that off, its possible you may have damaged a wire or soldered connection.

Best thing to do initially is to remove the rubber boot from it, visually check the connections and then get your soldering iron out and resolder both joints with some nice fresh solder in case you have a dry joint.
This fixed my fault and a few others on here as its a common problem.

Though I cant see this stopping your car starting, it could cause running problems I would think.

thanks mate. i really am trying to keep the faith. just very hard going just now. sounds very likely i've done something daft with the sensor on top of the IM so i'll have a nosey at that tomorrow.

I was totally confident i had all markers lined up but i'm considering leaving it in to my mechanics (well... i'll need one of them to come round the corner to my house initially). the only way the dizzy fits in is to have the sensor over below the idle control valve, as the old one was. the line on the new dizzy isn't in the same place as the old one so i've lined it up with the mark as it is - who am I to question this? the old one was directly opposite the sensor plug. the new dizzy has the line about 90 degrees out. If the timing is out would it cause the car to act as it is? I thought it would at least start but run badly if i hadn't gotten it just right.

[takes deep breath] OK, i'll just try not to dream about allen bolts in difficult places and get the bonnet open tomorrow.

[Nj]

This is a challenging fault you have ah !! you about on tuesday during the day?.....as i am free then i could bring S2 down and we could swap parts over till we get the right part which needs replaced

damn. afraid i'll be back in work tuesday morning mate. I would attempt a cheeky last minute holiday buit i got a half day on friday with 10 minutes notice because I wanted to get stuck into my dizzy changing escapades.

I can't even think what parts I could take off your car to try mate. i'm stumped. thinking I might have to look at the speed sensor now. or be more accurate with my testing the wiring between the ECU and the Hall sensor plug.

right - i'm getting a coupl eof guinness down my neck to see if that helps.

(did you see how my friday started? added it into this thread http://www.s2forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21967)

cheers mate

[Knight Rider S4]

Friday sounded fun what part of glasgow you in?...

[s2dude]

aaaaaahhhhh!!! mother fu*cking son of a b*tch piece of cr@p!!!

yep - it hasn't gone according to plan. having managed to get the dizzy out without taking the inlet manifold off, I set about taking the rocker cover off to get the bits of dizzy gear out. the final bolt is under the inlet manifold though so I ended up having to take off the inlet manifold anyway. new dizzy in, new rocker cover gasket, rocker cover on, inlet manifold on, leads on, turn key....... aghhh!!! buggration! engine turns over but doesn't start. i checked the coil lead against the head and there was a faint bit of sparking there. it sounded like there was a wee judder, as if the car wanted to start. couldn't get it to actually start though. there was a bit of hesitation as it was turning over so i convinced myself that despite setting all the timing marks I must have set the dizzy wrong. so I took it out and reset everything again. still turning over but not starting. and now i can't get any spark holding the coil lead to the head.
i'm just about at the point where i'm going to break it. it's just not worth all this hassle when I still have to fix the bodywork at the back. i'm pretty well balanced between clincically depressed and psychotically angry.

The dizzy mark is in a different place on your new dizzy?????
Well, I'm no expert on distributors but it sounds like you may have the wrong dizzy!!

I would think the timing will be way out if you are trying to align to marks that are now in a diffferent place on this dizzy. If it is well out it would certainly mean your car wont start!

If it were me I would certainly remove the dizzy and check the part number and what you have actually been sent.
You could maybe try a heath robinson fix by aligning the new dizzy to the old ones mark by eye, and see if the car starts and runs (I certainly wouldnt advise driving or leaving it running like that). If it does the timing will still be off but at least you would know before you sent the dizzy back (being totally on the mark is crucial)

From what I've seen, a lot of VAG parts can have very similiar PN's but have a bracket in a different place, or a diffferent plug..etc (or a diffferent timing mark location!)

[Nj]

Friday sounded fun what part of glasgow you in?...

King's Park beside Hampden. Feel free to call any time and say hello. Or just hang about and poke fun at me as I continue to get frustrated.

[Nj]

The dizzy mark is in a different place on your new dizzy?????
Well, I'm no expert on distributors but it sounds like you may have the wrong dizzy!!

I would think the timing will be way out if you are trying to align to marks that are now in a diffferent place on this dizzy. If it is well out it would certainly mean your car wont start!

If it were me I would certainly remove the dizzy and check the part number and what you have actually been sent.
You could maybe try a heath robinson fix by aligning the new dizzy to the old ones mark by eye, and see if the car starts and runs (I certainly wouldnt advise driving or leaving it running like that). If it does the timing will still be off but at least you would know before you sent the dizzy back (being totally on the mark is crucial)

From what I've seen, a lot of VAG parts can have very similiar PN's but have a bracket in a different place, or a diffferent plug..etc (or a diffferent timing mark location!)

I actually tried to set it that way too. still wouldn't start but i thought there was a hint of a cough, like it wanted to start. i'll take the dizzy out tomorrow and post pics. it did have me a bit confused. or I may seal everything in sight using silicone, fill it with water and chuck a couple of fish in there. be a nice conversation starter.

[martinjs]

Did you set all the timing marks? flywheel etc. Was the rotor arm pointing to No1 plug lead on the dizzy cap? I agree, the different line on the new dizzy sounds a bit odd. Post pics of it anyway.
You dont have to remove the whole manifold to get to that last bolt on the rocker cover, just remove the throttle body.

[Nj]

yeah I had all timing marks set up. I was thinking about the posts that said the rotor arm should be pointing to number 1 cylinder but being a bit of a mongo I was thinking "how can I point it to the cylinder?" Of course I now realise it should be pointing to the ht lead that goes to cylinder number 1. Should there be a mark on the engine itself to line the dizzy body up? I can really only put it in one way anyway, since the hall sesnor plug has to hang out one side. there might be a few degrees it could go either way though.

i'm going to check that the rotor arm is set to number 1 lead and redo it again.

are you def thinking about a 3B by the way? I really couldn't see another way to get at that last bolt without using "the force". Although on the instructions at s2-audi.co.uk I could see that on other engines it must be fractionally different. no matter. don't need to do it again I hope.

Don't know if i'll get at the car this morning. have to nip out and do family things. but i'll be back throwing spanners at pigeons tonight.

cheers lads

[LHD_Kid]

My 3B had distributor problems, but only replace cap and rotor arm.... I did however remove the dizzy to do it... and I also removed the cam cover as well, to replace the gasket..
I only had to remove throttle body to access the last screw for the cover, not sure why you had to remove the IM, but I reckon it will make your job easier setting things up...
As for the dizzy, it has to be wrong... because if you cannot put it in, with the rotor arm in the correct place and still connect up the Hall sender wire you will never get it set correctly...
You do not have a mark on the block for fitting the dizzy....
Assuming you set the engine to TDC before you started, ie, all marks lined up... you just have to put the dizzy in turning slightly as you engage the teeth on the drive gear, such that the rotor arm lines up with the mark on the dizzy body...
the camshafts should be in the correct position, therefore, as long as you push the dizzy in between the correct teeth on the drive gear you cannot turn the dizzy round much (I believe about 3 degrees of turn...) Anyway, you then need to hold the dizzy solid with one hand and do up the locking plate with nut underneath to hold it firm... then double check the line of the rotor arm on the line again and you should be fine... assuming the dizzy is the correct one....
Good luck
Chris

[Nj]

i'll need to look again but I didn't see how else to do it. must have missed that I could take the throttle body off. doh!

sounds like I was doing right with the dizzy but i'll redo it again. engine at TDC, dizzy in, line rotor arm up with mark on dizzy and secure... Don't see why it didn't work the 1st time. what an utter pain in the ***. here we go again.

[Nj]

right lads. save my sanity.

Old dizzy with timing mark to the left


New dizzy with timing mark at the top


Is this right? Keeping the HT leads as they were on the old dizzy cap, number 1 lead goes to the left. So this would fit in with the rotor arm pointing to the timing mark when fitting.
But... if I keep the ht leads as they were, number 1 lead will again go to the left. And if I point the rotor arm to the timing mark it will be pointing up.
Something is amiss here. Anybody able to straighten me out?

Don't know if this is relevant at all but the wee black plastic thing inside the dizzy body is in a different place on the new one too. the numbers 03 and 29 are on the old one but nothing's on the new one.



anybody know what's what here?

[220bhp]

on yur first picture you would need to turn the rotor arm 180deg,then the mark on the inner circle will line up with the mark on the top of the outer casing. on picture no3
90deg antyclockwise, would line the marks up. thats the way it looks to me

[twoqu]

Well to be honest it looks like its the wrong dizzy! Most Audi 5 pot dizzies have the hall sender (the black plastic bit sticking up) virtually at 180 degrees to the connector. When installed the connector is at approx 3 o'clock and the rotor arm at 8 o'clock. The rotor arm should be roughly aligned with the outlet from the water rail. The reason the marks are on the dizzy body and rotor ring are so the hall sender sees the rotor window at the correct position relative to TDC. You can try, but it doesen't look like you can make the same alignment position with your new one. Even if you could, you would have to re-arranage the ht leads as No 1 would now be at 12 O'clock.
That company you used did not seem to list any 20V models either NA or turbo. They did list the RS2 strangely! Better to have spent more on the correct one from Audi. They were savagely expensive a few years back, but more reasonable now.