removing dizzy - turning engine to mark?

[Nj]

on yur first picture you would need to turn the rotor arm 180deg,then the mark on the inner circle will line up with the mark on the top of the outer casing. on picture no3
90deg antyclockwise, would line the marks up. thats the way it looks to me

Yeah but that's the old dizzy mate. that one i understand. i know the rotor arm should be round in line with the mark on the casing. It's the second dizzy that has me confused. I just spun both rotor arms round to teh right so you could see the marks on both dizzys.

[Nj]

Well to be honest it looks like its the wrong dizzy! Most Audi 5 pot dizzies have the hall sender (the black plastic bit sticking up) virtually at 180 degrees to the connector. When installed the connector is at approx 3 o'clock and the rotor arm at 8 o'clock. The rotor arm should be roughly aligned with the outlet from the water rail. The reason the marks are on the dizzy body and rotor ring are so the hall sender sees the rotor window at the correct position relative to TDC. You can try, but it doesen't look like you can make the same alignment position with your new one. Even if you could, you would have to re-arranage the ht leads as No 1 would now be at 12 O'clock.
That company you used did not seem to list any 20V models either NA or turbo. They did list the RS2 strangely! Better to have spent more on the correct one from Audi. They were savagely expensive a few years back, but more reasonable now.

cheers mate. I was thinking along those lines but didn't want to assume the worst. Seems logical that the rotor arm would point the same way in a replacement dizzy since the HT leads aren't going anywhere differently. I'll get back to that company and see what they say.

I should have popped over to Iraq this bank holiday weekend to negotiate a truce between the allied forces and the insurgents, because let's be honest it would have been a more productive weekend and I would have had a better chance of success.

As ever, thanks for your wisdom lads

[twoqu]

Sad fact of life, but you can't trust anyone, especially when it comes to cars!
If you get one from Audi, open the box whilst you are there. It does pay to deal with people who know the car.
I thought at first that they had sent a 10V dizzy but from what I have seen from your pics, thats not the case either! The dizzy gear would be different anyway. Are there no part number at all on it?
Fact of the matter is, obviously its not a 3B dizzy as other wise it would be identical to your old one.

[Nj]

yeah. even sadder it makes me a bit of an **** for not spotting this straight away and getting it sorted. I've only changed sparks and air filters before this. Over enthusiasm clouded my judgement it seems. Looks like i'll be off to the dealers after all, even though they said it would be at least 22nd may by the time they can get me one. At least it would be the right one though. Still - i've been learning a lot recently. If nothing else I could have taken the bloody throttle body off instead of the whole IM.
There's no part number on it by the way. just has a bosch stamp.

( I should have stuck to installing ICE)

[s2dude]

ring vagparts

http://www.vagparts.co.uk/

Phone: 01793 487700
Fax: 01793 487701



they will get it faster than your dealers for a non stock *from Germany* item I think(probably a week Monday arrival if you order tomorrow)
plus if you speak to Martin he really knows his sh*t with these cars and will get you the right one 1st time.

[Nj]

I actually spoke to vagparts a couple of weeks ago. Don't know if it was martin but the guy was really decent. unfortunately they could only get 1 of the 2 types (I didn't know which one I needed at that time) and it was going to be around £200. He actually advised me to go with the dealer at £150 plus exchange of old unit.

The good news is.. I emailed those pics to the supplier last night and the guy got back to me first thing this morning to apologise. He says the one they sent has the sensors in the wrong place. they have 2 almost identical but the wrong one was sent to me. So hopefully tomorrow the courier will drop off the new one and take away the old. Then when the rain stops (it is scotland after all) i'll give that bad boy a shot and see how we go. I paid £85 + vat (£99) so i'm still quids in as long as this one's right and i'll have an old dizzy to start my audi parts nursery mobile for my boy's bedroom.

cheers

[Nj]

what a headache...
new dizzy in (checked against old one and everything in the right place) but still not starting
and my vagcom isn't working at all now. I installed 504.1 and used xstarter to run the crack constantly but I just tried to use it and got port status ok, no interface found. Tried version 409 too because it was still installed but still didn't get a connection. I don't get why. worked ok last week.

i'm using an old haynes manual to keep me right and looking at the electronic components. Just tested the resistance across the contacts on the coil pack. got just under 1 ohm as expected across 1- and 15+ but i'm supposed to be getting about 6500 ohms across 4(HT) and 15+ but i'm getting nothing. Is this signifcant? i'm naturally inclined to assume i'm doing something wrong but there's always the possibility there's a fault there.

I'm going out now to make sure the hall sensor in the new dizzy is working and generally make my headache worse

i've been using the multimeter to measure 12v across the positive battery terminal and the engine components. should this rule out bad earth problems?

cheers

[twoqu]

Shouldn't it be between 1 and 4(HT) not 15 and 4(HT).
Use this site as a resource:

http://www.sjmautotechnik.com/trouble_shooting/nostart.html#ignfuel

Note the recommendation about the LED. It would seem it is recommended to test the Motronic that way. The older 10V was not so sensitive!

[Nj]

cheers mate. i'll have a nosey at that and see if it helps me. i'll recheck if it should have been 1 and 4.

note to anybody in scotland - i'll give you money and show uncomfortable levels of emotion if you come and tell me what's wrong with my car.

[twoqu]

As I said before in a previous thread, I would physically check the flywheel pin by removing the starter and turning the engine slowly. If the pin has gone, so has your ignition! No amount of changing components will help. If you think you have had a PITA up to now, replacing that is a whole new world of pain.

[Nj]

oh yeah. that old chestnut. so if i take the starter out I should be able to see or feel the flywheel yes?
what is it that reads the pin on the flywheel going round then? i mean, what sensor? Just in case that's something that needs checked too
cheers again

[Nj]

I'm getting nothing across 1 and 4 on the coil either. with ignition on or off.

But when i put an LED across 2 and 3 on the hall sensor and turned the engine over I got a flash every 2nd turn. So at least the hall sensor is working.

[twoqu]

oh yeah. that old chestnut. so if i take the starter out I should be able to see or feel the flywheel yes?
what is it that reads the pin on the flywheel going round then? i mean, what sensor? Just in case that's something that needs checked too
cheers again

But you haven't bothered to check have you!

http://www.s2forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9699

There are two timing sensors on the side of the engine monted in an alloy block. One is for the flywheel teeth (rpm), the other for the timing pin.

[Nj]

it's not that I aven't bothered mate. When I got the hall sensor error on vagcom i thought the new sensor on new dizzy would have it sorted. and truth be told the pin issue scares the hell out of me. I was just out looking at the starter motor and I'm a bit scared i'll do some damage. Still - until recently I had only changed the sparks so i'd better just get stuck in.

[twoqu]

Understood! But its less complicated than removing the dizzy! Just disconnect the battery first.
Go back to the SJM site and read the testing the ignition coil module, just above the hall sender advice. If thats not being switched, I reckon the pin is a likely candidate.
Moral of the story is to test not guess. Seems to me you have already paid for an "expert" diagnosis that was incorrect. Something that could have been avoided by following some basic testing with basic tools. Basically we are trying to eliminate what its not. What ever is left, however unlikely is the cause. Just need to be methodical in your approach.