Conrod Options

[timucin]

himmm.....

[Doug_RS2]

Originally posted by timucin
himmm.....

If you start trying to keep up with Mark and his mods - you will end up a poor man

I would advise you to get your car running properly first and get Mihnea to remap it to maximise what you have - this is getting too expensive for me.

[timucin]

yep you are right..


but still , what is the price of carillo set? do you have the exact prices


thnx

[Doug_RS2]

The carrillos are approx £900 to £950. I get the impression they are the best you can get before going to titanium rods.

But when you see the Pauters are working out at approx £450 - you can see why they are tempting - they have a very good reputation as well.

[Sweeper]

Are the titanium rods stronger ?

[Habib]

Originally posted by Sweeper
Are the titanium rods stronger ?

Yes. the titaniums are much stronger and very light too. I am using a set of Titanium arrows.

[Mark Halligan]

I am using a set of Titanium arrows.

Lordy !!! :eek2: :eek2:

[Sweeper]

I thought carrilos were the best.

[SteveH]

Don't forget the bloke who has Carrillos or Pauter rods in his car isn't going to be running standard levels of boost. I'm not surprised he's got wear on the little end, I bet he's running 500+bhp

Originally posted by Mark Halligan
Doug, it was message #1481 on Kruemmer, but this was a bit different as he was using these on a stroker, if indeed that does make a difference?

I've never heard/read of this happening before other than on this occasion, another thing to remember is that rifle drilling may weaken the rod too. Also piston choice may also have a bearing (no pun intended ) upon pin wear, ie. pistons with the forced pin oiling option?

More to think about .

Cheers,

Mark.

[auditude]

If you are interested in rife drilling, then cunningham is the way to go, as they only charge 40 per rod, unlike arrow wich charges over 100 becuase they require a different forging. Cunningham also includes their own custom fasteners, and bronze bushings. Here is the response i got back from them:

"We offer two materials, 4340 chromoly and Titanium. Obviously, the Titanium is the lightest, but it is very expensive. Both type of rods will come complete with full floating bronze bushings and our own rod bolts. The bolts are made from AISI H11 tool steel and rated at 296,000 PSI. The threads on the bolts are roll formed, not cut, making them the strongest in the industry.

The Titanium rods come polished. To make a set for your engine will cost as follows:

Titanium--- $450 each rod

4340 chromoly rods-- $180 each rod

OPTION
Since you will be running at hi revs, and a turbo or other boost for power, we strongly recommend the rifle drilling. This will save the internal parts from early fatigue, and possibly failure. The engine will run cooler, and the pins and bottom of the pistons will be reduced from the heat build-up. The cost for this process is:
Titanium-- $80 extra for each rod
4340 Chromoly-- $40 extra each rod

As for making them lighter, we have a patented process that lightens the rods. We do this in the manufacturing process. We do NOT cut off materila like our competitors. Our patented process keeps the rods like original, strong, and dependable. Cutting off material weakens the rods. Our process is the only way to guarantee the strength! This lightweight process will cost an extra $25 per rod. We cannot give you an exact weight reduction until we make the first rod as it all depends on the physical size. The weight reduction can be from 35 to75 grams."

Here is the contact information:

Cunningham Staff
Cunningham Rods
550 W. 172nd Street
Gardena, CA 90248 (USA)
310-538-0605
Fax: 310-538-0695
Website: www.cunninghamrods.com

If anyone else is interested in these rods, i would be more than happy to organize a group buy.
Hans

I'm just reading some of these threads about rods. I hadn't seen this one before somehow. I'm interested in these Cunningham rods. They seem like a good rod for the price, and the price itself seems pretty good.

Did everyone get the rods they needed? I heard that Justin's group buy didn't go through, but I haven't read anything on here about it? What's the status of that Pauter group buy?

I would be interested in a Cunningham group buy. I don't know if I necessarily want rifle drilling, since the motor has the piston squirters. However, someone mentioned that the stock rods are rifle drilled, is that true? If so, then I guess I would want to keep that feature.

Not that I think I would get them, but what would be real-world benefit of the titanium rods be? The price of the titanium Cunninghams is similar to the price of a set of Autoverdi's, no?

What's going on with people's rod pursuits?

Thanks,

Ken

[Mark Halligan]

What's going on with people's rod pursuits?

Thanks,

Ken

Ken,

Doug, Tom, and me ended up with Arrows, and Marco got the Pauters.

Just been looking at some Autoverdis tonight on the web, dunno why, I should have had enough of all this by now But they do look a good rod.

If I remember rightly the price for Titanium Arrow 129 rods (for the I5t engine) was something like £600 each , although I was told that they have never made them yet.

Mark.

[auditude]

Doug, Tom, and me ended up with Arrows, and Marco got the Pauters.

I see. Was there every a Pauter group buy? Justin mentioned that there was some issue with the parts never getting picked up from the shipper, so they ended up getting sent back to Pauter, or something. I'm just surprised that it hasn't been discussed here, as I thought some members were involved. Maybe not.

Anyway, here's something interesting about Cunningham rods.

From: http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/pr...scc_proj300zx/

The Rods
Rods are a critical part of the engine. Because they tether the pistons--which move up and down with considerable force--to the crank, the rods are the most highly stressed part of the engine. A rod failure is very catastrophic, usually destroying the entire engine. Although the stock forged steel, bronzed-bushed, floating wrist pin, Nissan rods are very strong and really are akin to many manufacturers' racing rods, we opted to go to an improved real racing rod for peace of mind. The stock rods are very strong and have been used in 600-hp engines with no problem before, but the cost of failure is so high, we do not want to take any chances.

We selected Cunningham rods for our engine. Cunningham rods are forged from billet, then machined to final shape. Most high-performance rods are simply machined from billets of high-quality steel. Cunningham actually forges the rods to near-final shape, then machines the forged blank to final dimensions. This forging process improves the grain structure, making it finer and also aligns the metals grain in the correct orientation with the direction of stress. This means the grain is aligned with the length of the rod. Cunningham uses 4340 high-nickel aircraft chrome moly to make their forging blanks.

This 4340 is much tougher than regular steel and is typically used in racing crankshafts, rods and drivetrain parts. The critical rod bolts are machined from high-strength H11 tool steel. The bolts can take an incredible 296,000 psi of stress before breaking. This is a substantial advantage because most rod failures are directly attributed to the bolts breaking This forging results in a tougher and lighter part than one simply cut from billet. Cunningham also uses a two-piece forging die so the rod cap has the grain flowing around the rod bore. Cunningham is the only rod company to do this. This helps keep the bore from distorting under load and can help improve rod bearing life.

Cunningham rods are machined to very tight tolerances--so tight it is nearly impossible to see the parting line between the cap and the rod body. Every bearing bore is consistent down to 0.0001-inch and all the rods are the same weight down to within one gram, making additional balancing unnecessary.

The rods are also shotpeened with a special two-step process using two different sizes of shot at different velocities with a post-peening, non-directional polishing process. This intensive shotpeening and polishing operation increases fatigue strength an additional 20 percent over regular shot-peening.

Finally, the rods are over 140 grams lighter than the stock rods, reducing reciprocating weight and strain on the rotating parts of the engine. These factors added up will give us a quite a bit of insurance against engine failure. It was money well-spent.

[Doug_RS2]

I was in on the group buy for the Pauter rods. I paid upfront when they were initially off-the-shelf, then I got told there was a 5 week leadtime - then after five weeks when I asked where they were I got told another 5 week leadtime - after that time and more excuses I cancelled. While they were waiting to refund me I found someone who wanted the Pauters so I asked if they could just send them - One week I was told they would be sent on the next day, then the next week I get told they were sold to someone else. Then I got screwed on charges and they lost a cheque and screwed me again for charges for that - not happy - but the delays are all done to Pauter, and I was told they wouldn't deal with them again.

I would have bbeen happy with the Pauters(£550) - especially since they were £250 cheaper than the Arrows (£800)

[mbcouple]

Cunningham are great folks to deal with. I am ordering rods for my stroker project in the next few weeks from them. If anyone overseas wants a hand importing these, i can ship them to you as a "present" or whatever to get you a tax and duties break. They do offer group discounts on rod orders larger than 20 idential rods. Its not a big break, if i remeber correctly $20 per rod or so, but it helps, and would pay for the cost of shipping overseas. They are the only company here in the US that uses a 2-piece forging. They forge the rod with the grain going up and down, and the cap with the grain going side to side, so the bottom end stays round. Another bonus is the cap bolts they use. They far exceed the ARP fasteners, and cost $25 per rod if you buy them seperately, but are included in the $180 per rod standard price, along with bronze bushings. Another big plus to cunningham is that they are very flexible. The first time i called, i was on the phone with them for over 15min, he just kept giving me all sorts of great free advice. They will allow you to increase the bolt size on any rod for extra rigidity, and they abosrb part of the cost of rifle drilling. They only charge $40 per rod, but often the machine shop they use to do it will charge $60 per rod. They also have some other cutom machining to help facilitate pin cooling. If anyone is interested, i will be ordering both 144mm and 15xmm rods. Still havent quite made up my mind on how long i want the rods for my stroker. I am also doing pistons through wiseco. I dont know about any discounts, but they were cheap to begin with, around $110 per piston. Dealer cost without pin is about $80 ish, so maybe we could get a set with pins and rings for $500. I will be ordering 82mm 8.5:1 pistons if anyone wants a duplicate set.
Feel free to email me.
Hans

[auditude]

Cunningham are great folks to deal with. I am ordering rods for my stroker project in the next few weeks from them. If anyone overseas wants a hand importing these, i can ship them to you as a "present" or whatever to get you a tax and duties break. They do offer group discounts on rod orders larger than 20 idential rods. Its not a big break, if i remeber correctly $20 per rod or so, but it helps, and would pay for the cost of shipping overseas. They are the only company here in the US that uses a 2-piece forging. They forge the rod with the grain going up and down, and the cap with the grain going side to side, so the bottom end stays round. Another bonus is the cap bolts they use. They far exceed the ARP fasteners, and cost $25 per rod if you buy them seperately, but are included in the $180 per rod standard price, along with bronze bushings. Another big plus to cunningham is that they are very flexible. The first time i called, i was on the phone with them for over 15min, he just kept giving me all sorts of great free advice. They will allow you to increase the bolt size on any rod for extra rigidity, and they abosrb part of the cost of rifle drilling. They only charge $40 per rod, but often the machine shop they use to do it will charge $60 per rod. They also have some other cutom machining to help facilitate pin cooling. If anyone is interested, i will be ordering both 144mm and 15xmm rods. Still havent quite made up my mind on how long i want the rods for my stroker. I am also doing pistons through wiseco. I dont know about any discounts, but they were cheap to begin with, around $110 per piston. Dealer cost without pin is about $80 ish, so maybe we could get a set with pins and rings for $500. I will be ordering 82mm 8.5:1 pistons if anyone wants a duplicate set.
Feel free to email me.
Hans

Hi Hans,

I couldn't see a way to email you, as you have the forum email turned off, but it's threadworthy nonetheless. I'm interested in getting a set of Cunninghams, in the standard length. They seem like the best option for me, and I'm impressed by what I've read about them.

I notice they offer the option of having the rod cap offset 45 degrees. What advantage does this have? It seems like it would put less tension stress on the bolts, but I don't know much about that.

Are the stock rods, for example from a 3B, rifle drilled? Have the rods for our application already been made by them in the past, or would these be the first time they've made them?

I'm not sure if I want to get a set of pistons too. If we can get a group discount on the rods, and pistons, I might be able to justify it to myself. :mischeif: I mean it would almost be like getting both rods and pistons for the price of another brand of rods only. What advantage would the Wiseco's have over the stock pistons, besides the bore change? Are they lighter?

Are there any issues with finding a suitable (metal) headgasket with the 82mm bore?

Thanks,

Ken