ECU's, immobilised to be specific

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  • Jas11n
    S2Forum Zealot
    • Jan 2004
    • 5067
    • Country: England

    #16
    Hello Rob mate,
    Yep, new plug connector comes with new coilpack.
    Compression check done, all ok and even better they are all pretty much bang on with each other.

    I'm going to buy some of this, think it'll work???

    Last edited by Jas11n; 25 August 2007, 23:36. Reason: spelling, Doh
    2001 Avus Silver B5 RS4.
    2004 A4 Avant 1.8T quattro Sport-LE.
    1995 S2 Coupe - sold (sniff)

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    • GT500
      S2Forum Fiend
      • Jun 2006
      • 2181
      • Country: United Kingdom

      #17
      I'm not sure "start ya Barstwerd" will help, perhaps a good squirt up your nose might make you feel better!
      I would be taking the coils off, remove the plugs, put plugs into connectors, touching all plugs on cylinder head, then get a helper to spin it over. Should tell you if you have all sparks, and then with a torch spin it over still with plugs out and check for the fuel spray.
      Got be one or the other!

      let us know,,,
      Rob..
      94 RS2 Noggy,LHD,MTM map,18"cup 1s,245/35/18,Bilsteins,RS2 H&Rs,Cup splitter.
      87 UR 20v ABY
      97 S6 Avant
      96 A6 C4 2.5 TDI quattro avant,Ming,Wietec/eibach,chipped
      1967 Ford Mustang,Eleanor,460ci v8

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      • UrS4boy
        S2Forum Obsessed
        • Feb 2006
        • 11859
        • Country: Canada

        #18
        Originally posted by Fat Audi 80
        Wild stab in the dark. Where does the Pos get its signal to fire from. Obviously the ECU but have you checked the cables into the POS for cylinder. Can you swap inputs to the POS's to check if this is the problem. (Obviously the firing order would be wrong when doing this but you could check for spark?)

        Feel free to point out the floors in my hypothisis!

        Good luck. Cheers, Steve.
        Flaws in your hypothesis? Yes, there are some. What you have to do is swap the POS input and outputs in pairs from one POS to the other. IF the miss moves to another cylinder then the problem is with one channel of the POS (or the wiring to the POS). IF the no spark is still on the same cylinder, then its a coil related issue.

        Just because the POS and coil (No. 4) are supposed to be good, I wouldn't just assume that they are indeed good. I suggest that the trick is to go back to basics and try going through the diagnostics I wrote for the UrS-car forum on AudiWorld for AANs (same electronics as ABY). To rule a coil out, one really needs to see the spark (or lack of):

        http://forums.audiworld.com/s4s6/msgs/149788.phtml

        When testing the coils, pull the fuel pump fuse so the pump doesn't load up the cylinders with unburnt fuel.

        There is a solution. Its either going to be a coil, a POS channel or bad wiring to one or the other.

        HTH
        RS2'd 93 UrS4 5 spd sedan
        94 UrS4 V8 6 spd manual avant

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        • Fat Audi 80
          Super Moderator
          • Jan 2004
          • 10547
          • Country: England

          #19
          Originally posted by UrS4boy
          Flaws in your hypothesis? Yes, there are some. What you have to do is swap the POS input and outputs in pairs from one POS to the other. IF the miss moves to another cylinder then the problem is with one channel of the POS (or the wiring to the POS). IF the no spark is still on the same cylinder, then its a coil related issue.

          Just because the POS and coil (No. 4) are supposed to be good, I wouldn't just assume that they are indeed good. I suggest that the trick is to go back to basics and try going through the diagnostics I wrote for the UrS-car forum on AudiWorld for AANs (same electronics as ABY). To rule a coil out, one really needs to see the spark (or lack of):

          http://forums.audiworld.com/s4s6/msgs/149788.phtml

          When testing the coils, pull the fuel pump fuse so the pump doesn't load up the cylinders with unburnt fuel.

          There is a solution. Its either going to be a coil, a POS channel or bad wiring to one or the other.

          HTH
          Which is sort of what I was getting at

          You have posted the complete fault finding process though....
          The Perfectionist
          sigpic
          Audi Class Concours winner Stoner Park 2014, ADI Concours D'Elegance Class Winner 2008, Runner up 2014. Winner, S2Forum Show'n'Shine Billing 2006 & 2008.

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          • Jas11n
            S2Forum Zealot
            • Jan 2004
            • 5067
            • Country: England

            #20
            I have seen the spark, or lack of on cylinder four. Coilpacks 1, 2 ,3 and 5 all spark, 4 doesn't. The specialist I use are Bosch agents and had a set of leads that plug into each coil. All spark apert from 4.
            All five coilpacks replaced in Feb, new one again this week. Still no spark from it. We've even taken a coilpack off one of the other stages (5) and switched it, still 4 is not sparking. All the wiring is good from the coilpacks to the connector for the POS.

            I have four good POS's, two were new in February of this year, one I've bought this week, and one I've removed from my brothers car. All work fine, with no channels dead.
            I've switched them round in every way we can. Even rewiring the pins of the connector on the POS doesn't move the defective spark situation. It stays at number 4.

            Injector 4 confirmed to be pulsing via feel and vag-com. Removed and it's supplying fuel at the right rate.
            Compression good on all cylinders. Continuity from pin 20 of the ABY ECU connector to the connector at the POS stage is ok, but then that's only been tested with I suppose a low current from a multimeter.

            I agree, it has to be a wiring fault somewhere. And we'll find it.

            Thanks for all the input.
            Jas..
            2001 Avus Silver B5 RS4.
            2004 A4 Avant 1.8T quattro Sport-LE.
            1995 S2 Coupe - sold (sniff)

            Comment

            • Jas11n
              S2Forum Zealot
              • Jan 2004
              • 5067
              • Country: England

              #21
              Originally posted by GT500
              I'm not sure "start ya Barstwerd" will help, perhaps a good squirt up your nose might make you feel better!
              Sorry Rob, didn't mean to offend, Was only trying to make light of my plight.
              I appreciate the help offered.

              Jas..
              2001 Avus Silver B5 RS4.
              2004 A4 Avant 1.8T quattro Sport-LE.
              1995 S2 Coupe - sold (sniff)

              Comment

              • GT500
                S2Forum Fiend
                • Jun 2006
                • 2181
                • Country: United Kingdom

                #22
                Don't worry fella, didn't think you where having a pop!

                Keep the faith!:mischeif:
                Rob..
                94 RS2 Noggy,LHD,MTM map,18"cup 1s,245/35/18,Bilsteins,RS2 H&Rs,Cup splitter.
                87 UR 20v ABY
                97 S6 Avant
                96 A6 C4 2.5 TDI quattro avant,Ming,Wietec/eibach,chipped
                1967 Ford Mustang,Eleanor,460ci v8

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                • lini
                  S2Forum Enthusiast
                  • May 2007
                  • 159
                  • Country: Slovenia

                  #23
                  Why don't you make direct line conection from motronic to POS? If the coil is ok and the pos is ok and you tried other motronic (did you?) it can be only the vire. Take a vire open a conector and try it. It is not a nice place to do it but....
                  S2+AAN in progress (again), BMW 3 compact

                  Comment

                  • Jas11n
                    S2Forum Zealot
                    • Jan 2004
                    • 5067
                    • Country: England

                    #24
                    Originally posted by lini
                    Why don't you make direct line conection from motronic to POS? If the coil is ok and the pos is ok and you tried other motronic (did you?) it can be only the vire. Take a vire open a conector and try it. It is not a nice place to do it but....
                    That's the plan, I'll link pin 20 straight to the POS and see if that does the trick.
                    I did try a different ECU yes.
                    Thanks for your suggestion lini
                    2001 Avus Silver B5 RS4.
                    2004 A4 Avant 1.8T quattro Sport-LE.
                    1995 S2 Coupe - sold (sniff)

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                    • Knight Rider S4
                      S2Forum Possessed
                      • Mar 2005
                      • 3541
                      • Country: Scotland

                      #25
                      Wish i lived closer to you ...as we could of swapped over coil conversion onto yours thus canceling out all wiring from POS to plugs to see if the fault was before or after POS
                      93 S2 Avant Parting
                      91 URQ RR
                      02 A4 tdi Avant

                      Comment

                      • Jas11n
                        S2Forum Zealot
                        • Jan 2004
                        • 5067
                        • Country: England

                        #26
                        Originally posted by Knight Rider S4
                        Wish i lived closer to you ...as we could of swapped over coil conversion onto yours thus canceling out all wiring from POS to plugs to see if the fault was before or after POS
                        Cheers Steve,
                        But in a way I've already confirmed the wiring between POS's and coilpacks. 1, 2, 3 and 5 work great, nice strong sparks. Swapping number 5 into the place of 4 and 4 into 5, confirms number 4 is a good coilpack as it's still a no go on 4. (5 in it's place now doesn't spark)

                        How many times have I typed 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 in this thread

                        Cheers mate, thanks for the input.

                        Jas..
                        2001 Avus Silver B5 RS4.
                        2004 A4 Avant 1.8T quattro Sport-LE.
                        1995 S2 Coupe - sold (sniff)

                        Comment

                        • S2central.net
                          Retired OG Mod
                          • Jul 2003
                          • 16590
                          • Country: Northern Ireland

                          #27
                          This a job for a VAG1598 breakout box... So yu can plumb the ECU right into a connection panel and buzz out all wiring connections. Its my favourite weapon for times like these... Unfort its the size of large suitcase. Good luck with this one.. Be careful if you are messing with that ECU connector.. I would buzz it out from the offending ECU pins to where you expect to see them connect to POS units.
                          Paul Nugent
                          Webmaster http://S2central.net
                          Administrator http://S2forum.com

                          1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
                          2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
                          2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

                          Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

                          There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

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                          • Jas11n
                            S2Forum Zealot
                            • Jan 2004
                            • 5067
                            • Country: England

                            #28
                            Originally posted by S2central.net
                            This a job for a VAG1598 breakout box... So yu can plumb the ECU right into a connection panel and buzz out all wiring connections. Its my favourite weapon for times like these... Unfort its the size of large suitcase. Good luck with this one.. Be careful if you are messing with that ECU connector.. I would buzz it out from the offending ECU pins to where you expect to see them connect to POS units.
                            Thanks Paul. I think they were using something like that. Very large Bosch "box" which plugged straight into the ECU's connector. Lots of switches etc on the top of it. Also had another piece of equipment that connected the main harness at the ECU connector to what looked like an ociliscope.
                            Will know more tomorrow when the lads are back at work.

                            Jas..
                            2001 Avus Silver B5 RS4.
                            2004 A4 Avant 1.8T quattro Sport-LE.
                            1995 S2 Coupe - sold (sniff)

                            Comment

                            • dubmeister
                              S2Forum Maniac
                              • Jun 2007
                              • 522
                              • Country: Wales

                              #29
                              What like this one?
                              http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VW-AUDI-SPECIA...QQcmdZViewItem
                              Great tools cost an absolute fortune new..

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                              • Jas11n
                                S2Forum Zealot
                                • Jan 2004
                                • 5067
                                • Country: England

                                #30
                                Originally posted by dubmeister
                                What like this one?
                                http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VW-AUDI-SPECIA...QQcmdZViewItem
                                Great tools cost an absolute fortune new..


                                That's a later one for 1.8T engines. Two separate plugs.
                                The version used on the S2 has a whooping connector which plugs straight into the main ECU connector

                                .................................................. .................................................. ...............................................

                                Problem resolved. Was a short circuit of the wiring. The wiring that leads from the ECU to the connector on the input side of the POS for cylinders 4+5 had been rubbing on something inside the harness it disappears into. So the wires that carry the 5v impulse from the ECU to the POS were touching. Why this would cause just cylinder 4 to not run and why the fuse that covers this area (Engine Timing111, position 30, 20amp) didn't blow is anyones guess
                                One for the archives.

                                Good to have her back.

                                Thanks for all the input.

                                Jas..
                                2001 Avus Silver B5 RS4.
                                2004 A4 Avant 1.8T quattro Sport-LE.
                                1995 S2 Coupe - sold (sniff)

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