Bad idling

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  • ur-s4315
    S2Forum Enthusiast
    • Jun 2007
    • 102
    • Country: Finland

    #1

    Bad idling

    Hello

    I have a serious problem with my rs2 -94. At idling and low rpm the car goes and sounds like a V8. It is confirmed that a lot of unburned fuel goes trouhg the engine at idle and low rpm but when the boost comes up it runs as it should and max boost is 1.4 bar. In the morning the car runs very nice the first 1.5 minutes and then it starts vrom vrom vrom idling speed 750 ->850 up and down. When I come to the redlights and push the clutch in it goes very nice down to idling speed.

    Following things has been tested or tried from a another rs2:

    - air mass meter
    - new spark plugs
    - all new ignition coils
    - new ignition amplifiers (POS)
    - pressurized the intake system, could not hear any leakages
    - changed all small vacum hoses
    - cambelt is right
    - another ISV
    - no fault codes
    - engine doesn't use any oil
    - no black or white smoke
    - fuel pressure is ok
    - injection nozzles pressurized and tested, also tried to take one connection off at nozzle but its the same on all cylinders.
    - magnetic (n75) valve tested
    - compression ratio is ok
    - cylinder head is leaktested and ok
    - air temp engine inlet ok according to vag-com
    - engine temp ok acc. to vag-com
    - new lambda
    - no leakage in crankcase breathing hoses
    -
    - at idle there is only -0.2 bar vacum in the intake manifold and when I blip the throttle it goes to -0.5 bar as it should be. Flat out 1.4 bar

    MOT emission test

    idling speed
    CO: 1
    CO2: 11.2
    HC:1440
    O2: 5.5
    Lambda: 1.00

    3000 rpm
    CO: 0.99
    CO2: 14.5
    HC: 91
    O2: 0.24
    Lambda: 0.98

    Is it possible that the inlet camshaft could be 1 teeth wrong?

    Please I need help !!!
  • GT500
    S2Forum Fiend
    • Jun 2006
    • 2181
    • Country: United Kingdom

    #2
    Sounds rich.
    I know you have tested the water temp sensor,vag com, I would have a new one on.
    Is it remapped?
    Rob..
    94 RS2 Noggy,LHD,MTM map,18"cup 1s,245/35/18,Bilsteins,RS2 H&Rs,Cup splitter.
    87 UR 20v ABY
    97 S6 Avant
    96 A6 C4 2.5 TDI quattro avant,Ming,Wietec/eibach,chipped
    1967 Ford Mustang,Eleanor,460ci v8

    Comment

    • kwlw
      S2Forum Extremist
      • Sep 2004
      • 1025
      • Country: Lithuania

      #3
      Originally posted by ur-s4315
      Is it possible that the inlet camshaft could be 1 teeth wrong?
      Something similar occured when camshaft chain became too long for some reason. It's also was bad hot idle. He found it with some phase checking tool (they were searching for cambelt problem).

      Also I would check hose between the MAF and turbo, spray MAF contacts with contact cleaner. Just in case.

      Sau
      200 20vt 88' 3b, human carrier
      CQ typ85 with AAN inside, see project blog at http://kwlw.blogspot.com

      Comment

      • ur-s4315
        S2Forum Enthusiast
        • Jun 2007
        • 102
        • Country: Finland

        #4
        I had the hose between MAF and turbo checked and couldn't find any cracks. Have to ttake apart cylinder head cover to see if there is other camshafts than there should be. I have only owned the car for 5 weeks and I bought the car with this problem. The cylinder head was newly done with all new parts but I don't know if the chain was changed. The seller said that the car is original.

        Comment

        • ur-s4315
          S2Forum Enthusiast
          • Jun 2007
          • 102
          • Country: Finland

          #5
          I tried to disconnect the lambda wire but nothing happend, at idling. i also measured the TPS according to s2-central page and everything was ok.

          When I give a little throttle just so that the rpm goes up to 1000 or little less then the rpm starts to to go up and down 500-1100. What can couse this? I have tried another ISV.

          Comment

          • UrS4boy
            S2Forum Obsessed
            • Feb 2006
            • 11859
            • Country: Canada

            #6
            Originally posted by ur-s4315
            When I give a little throttle just so that the rpm goes up to 1000 or little less then the rpm starts to to go up and down 500-1100. What can couse this? I have tried another ISV.
            This may sound weird and it might not be the answer BUT...

            On an AAN, the Intake Air Temp (IAT) sensor connector and the ISV connector are the same size and have the same number of pins. Since it seems like your ISV is not functioning properly even though you have tried other ones, I have to wonder whether the IAT and ISV connectors didn't get plugged into the wrong receptacles/devices. This HAS happened with the odd AAN owner who was working around the throttle body and didn't pay attention as to which connector went where and put things back in the wrong place when they were done. Then they post to a forum, saying "My car idles like c**p". This may have been done to your car by the previous owner.

            If the distance between the ADU ISV and IAT make this error physically possible, I suggest that you swap connections to see if things get better. I doubt that they could get any worse.

            PS: Are you really in the USA with your RS2?

            Dave F.
            RS2'd 93 UrS4 5 spd sedan
            94 UrS4 V8 6 spd manual avant

            Comment

            • 220bhp
              S2Forum Fiend
              • Nov 2004
              • 2578
              • Home: United Kingdom

              #7
              Had a very similar problem with revs jumping up and down on my s2, turned out to be a faulty tps.

              Comment

              • ur-s4315
                S2Forum Enthusiast
                • Jun 2007
                • 102
                • Country: Finland

                #8
                Hello again.

                -Measured all connections at ECU, everything seems to be in order.
                -checked that the camshafts were in the right position, they were.
                -When the engine was warm and idling we unplugged the temp sensor at the back of cylinder head and simulated it so that the ECU thought that the engine was cold and it got more fuel. The engine started to run very smooth.
                -Before the simulation the injection time was 3.4 ms. It should be between 1.5-3 ms. During the smooth running it was 3.8 ms. Sounds good but the emission showed CO=4%, HC 2000 ,which meens that a lot of unburned fuel goes through the engine.

                -The bosch diagnostic tool also showed that the ignition timing was -10 at idle. Is this before or after TDC?
                -How is this possible that you put more fuel in a already rich mixture and you get a smooth running?
                (non standard camshafts maybe)

                (camshaft markings: EX: Mon5...9258...95H IN: 034AM) are these standard?

                Have to try to switch the connections. I'm from Finland but I was in a hurry when I made the profile so....

                Comment

                • breitling
                  S2Forum Addict
                  • Dec 2005
                  • 491
                  • Country: Norway

                  #9
                  I have some of the same problems you are describing here.
                  Will try to change the engine temp sensor and intake air sensor .

                  Let me know if you get any wiser
                  Audi RS4+Long sportquattro
                  www.hansenmotorsport.no

                  Comment

                  • breitling
                    S2Forum Addict
                    • Dec 2005
                    • 491
                    • Country: Norway

                    #10
                    Originally posted by 220bhp
                    Had a very similar problem with revs jumping up and down on my s2, turned out to be a faulty tps.
                    What is TPS??
                    Audi RS4+Long sportquattro
                    www.hansenmotorsport.no

                    Comment

                    • A80Avant
                      S2Forum Obsessed
                      • Sep 2005
                      • 10873
                      • Country: Greece

                      #11
                      yesterday after leaving the car at the garage from a small drive the day before,i went for another easy drive.The car did some very bad idling.The needle was jumping up and down while the ecu was trying to keep the car from stalling.I burned a whole lot of fuel smelling all over the place.

                      Today i did some checking.I dont know how to use VAGCOM very well,but from there i got no fault codes at all!Not even when the car was behaving in this erratic way!!.

                      SO i changed the MAF!!! why?it was the only thing that i had recently changed along with the WGFV.The WGFV has nothing to do with idle,so it seemed logical that it should be the answer,although it was a new unit bought from vagparts a month ago,but only been used for a week since i was away for the summer.

                      the car now behaves perfectly and everything is back to normal.I took the time to clean the ISV as well,although it was perfectly clean already when i got it out,so no problem there.

                      I do believe that sometimes the temp sensors could produce false readings that mess up the idle,but in tuned cars my mechanic thinks that this MAF is one of the first things to go!

                      so give a check on the maf once again..it may cure things...

                      Comment

                      • 220bhp
                        S2Forum Fiend
                        • Nov 2004
                        • 2578
                        • Home: United Kingdom

                        #12
                        Throttle position sensor. the little black box on the back of the throttle body

                        Comment

                        • breitling
                          S2Forum Addict
                          • Dec 2005
                          • 491
                          • Country: Norway

                          #13
                          Any updates??
                          Audi RS4+Long sportquattro
                          www.hansenmotorsport.no

                          Comment

                          • A80Avant
                            S2Forum Obsessed
                            • Sep 2005
                            • 10873
                            • Country: Greece

                            #14
                            Breitling,it seems that my MAF although indeed has a problem,the problem in my car was the 2 bolts on the inlet manifold where all the earth cables connect from the ECU.Since i tightened them the idle went back to normal,i have very good fuel consumption again,no black smoke.and only a 561 fault code which i suspect is from my fuel filter cause my fuel pump is also a bit louder than it should be.Check if the bolts are loose and also check the MAF again.

                            Comment

                            • ur-s4315
                              S2Forum Enthusiast
                              • Jun 2007
                              • 102
                              • Country: Finland

                              #15
                              I have tried another MAF from a rs2 which has no problems. I have also checked the earth connections. Tomorrow I will measure the camshafts.

                              Comment

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