RS2 GT3071R dyno results

[prosty]

That power figure does not look right from what I know. You should be putting out at about 450-500hp crank with that turbo. At least 370-380 wheel hp with a 7a exh cam.
The exhaust could be the issue, dual cats are sucky yucky try decat pipes and see if you notice any difference, you will atleast get a lot less backpressure, possibly less surge too.

[monstereddie]

From what i understood and read in the whole thread the car has a 3071R, 7A cams, twin cat, 9:1CR and makes 334hp on a dyno, correct??

The car is running too rich. At acceleration you should have between 0.82 and 0.87 max.

What happens if you set up moore boost? Does the power go up?

Concerning the rumors with the RS2 measurements: We measure any RS2 before doing work on them. The ADU engines delivers between 295 and 300 whp on the dyno. I never measured one with nearly 310hp - never. We have one of the best dynos in the world round here, it is the reference dyno (maha did their sales video on this dyno) of maha with the biggest fan 120000cbm/h round here.

I also did the experience with the RS4s. If the dyno does not cool down the car right and you have the biggest turbos and huge ICs it always breakes down at 441hp. No matter what you do, there is the limit. We measured a RS4 with 2 waterhoses on the ICs and it delivered like 500 and more if it is cool enough.


@PAPVAS: Did Erdal do any work on the mapping? If you need help, please let me know. Please also post a list of all the technical specs and changes you did on the whole system. Also a picture of the engine bay would be great. What kind of MAF are you using?

[aronmatic2]

From what i understood and read in the whole thread the car has a 3071R, 7A cams, twin cat, 9:1CR and makes 334hp on a dyno, correct??

The car is running too rich. At acceleration you should have between 0.82 and 0.87 max.

What happens if you set up moore boost? Does the power go up?

Concerning the rumors with the RS2 measurements: We measure any RS2 before doing work on them. The ADU engines delivers between 295 and 300 whp on the dyno. I never measured one with nearly 310hp - never. We have one of the best dynos in the world round here, it is the reference dyno (maha did their sales video on this dyno) of maha with the biggest fan 120000cbm/h round here.

I also did the experience with the RS4s. If the dyno does not cool down the car right and you have the biggest turbos and huge ICs it always breakes down at 441hp. No matter what you do, there is the limit. We measured a RS4 with 2 waterhoses on the ICs and it delivered like 500 and more if it is cool enough.


@PAPVAS: Did Erdal do any work on the mapping? If you need help, please let me know. Please also post a list of all the technical specs and changes you did on the whole system. Also a picture of the engine bay would be great. What kind of MAF are you using?

if the rs2 315 crank hp, how can you mesure 295 whp?
can you explain please?

[A80Avant]

Well the specs have been written on my project thread.
here they are again:
1)Head serviced all ADU parts NO 7A cams,but original ADU cams without any machining done other than service(meaning replacement of valve seats,stem seals,and new hydraulic lifters

2)Engine: Mahle pistons and scat rods,on OEM crank with dual mass flywheel and spec stage 3+(carbon friction material) clutch kit. Compression ratio with the mahle pistons was 8.9:1 but my mechanics figure that they did it close to 9:1 with head trimming.

3)GT3071R turbo with .63AR

4)76mm downpipe with BNpipes twin cats and 70mm catback with 2 silencers

5)OEM ADU MAF

6)440cc green tops cosworth injectors with OEM ADU 3.8bar fuel pressure regulator

7)Intercooler 550x300x60mm size

8)13row oil cooler

9)water injection system

10)forge 006 diverter valve

11) OEM inlet manifold and OEM exhaust manifold with cryogenic treatment on the exhaust manifold and the turbo hotside.70mm tube going into the inlet manifold

12)OEM RS2 air filter

The ecu was programmed by Erdal and after my request he sent me a new one with higher boost levels.It is more rich because of lousy greek fuel quality which you end up instead of 100octane fuel to use 96 sometimes at most!Now i have 950C ON the hotside (exhaust temperature) on full throttle on 5th or 6th gear.On cruising i have 750-800C doing 130km on cruise control on 6th gear.I dont know if this is rich for the full throttle or not,but this temperature is the highest i could get away with.Maybe i need to have 76mm exhaust cat back and 1 cat to make it less in backpressure,but then again Ross did it on OEM exhaust system OEM cats,and only a 7A cam!!!Can the 7A cam give more than 30hp??

With the last boost figures i had around 1.9bar - 2bar overboost and then dropped to 1.75bar to 1.8bar up to 6500rpm at least.I never managed to see what is happening after that.
According to the time of the 60-160Kms there is no way the car is only 358hp crank.More likely to be around 400hp since i dont have the 7A cam.

@prosty: the cats are practically new and from BN pipes,which are supposed to be good.However they are 200ccp and i could have gone with 100ccp instead for less backpressure but i didnt want the car to be very loud.I dont know if i will change the system later to 1 cat for less backpressure,but i still want the car to be OK for any MOT it has to go through.So see,on rototest i saw 334whp on the hubs @1.5bar of boost.So now with 1.7 or 1.8bar of boost i could have around 350whp-360whp which would be more normal figure for a setup like this one that doesnt have the 7A cam,right?

photos:

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o59/vasp3690/airhoses_2-1.jpg?t=1210613410

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o59/vasp3690/engine2008.jpg?t=1210613448

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o59/vasp3690/underrear.jpg?t=1210613471

[Jamo]

if the rs2 315 crank hp, how can you mesure 295 whp?
can you explain please?

Would make sense if he is referring to chipped RS2's

310 whp would be about 388 crank bhp

[aronmatic2]

Would make sense if he is referring to chipped RS2's

310 whp would be about 388 crank bhp

that is ok, if we are talking about chipped rs2.

[A80Avant]

he probably made a mistake because he says: we measure all RS2 BEFORE making any work on them,so probably he means hp crank....and he needs to explain!

[A80Avant]

Forgot to mention that the 60-160 in takes me around 8sec(you can notice it in the videos as well,although you dont see the tacho,the 160km mark is @5500rpm on the last gear change).I dont think a 358hp and 246whp according to the maha dyno could make that time...right?

[MarkPS]

Hi Papvas

Thanks for those links.

Regards
Mark

[A80Avant]

no problem!

[prosty]

papvas that seems more reasonable, Sweden have quite High standard MOT checks and I used a 100 cell cat in my car, worked fine, The bigger the exh housing the quieter the car will be and less back pressure. I had only 1 big silencer on my avant and it wasn't that loud, but if you are concerned with noice, this will be an issue because noice is a big issue if you want more power.

[monstereddie]

No i said it right. In Germany the DIN means, that the car will be delivered with the Power measured on the wheel! If you buy a car the law tells you, that the car reaches 315hp. We dont talk about whp, we talk about PNorm which will be measured for example in Böblingen at TÜV Automotive. There is a very high standard and specific Temperature and Density conditions. If i say, that we never measured 315hp, then i mean PNorm Horse Power what is calculated through EWG80/1269 or DIN707000. If you are talking about the crank horse power this is stupid. The crank horse power is a very unknown measure if you put the car on a dyno. It is also calculated, but only if the mass changes you have different results.

The best way to measure a engine is on a engine dyno without car. This is an exact result and this is the best way to find out, what the engine delivers without loss through mass.


@PapVas: I dont think, that Erdal, me or anyone can really deliver a correct Mapping through EMail or Post. You should simulate the car and do the mapping on the road. This is the best way to do stuff like this. With this setup i would say, that your limit will be between 350-390hp on the dyno. The Exhaust Manifold of the RS2 OEM will never bounce the power higher than 400hp. You can install the biggest turbo with the biggest downpipe. The problem on your car is the Exhaust Manifold.

Here also some results, that i did in the past:

7A Cam, much torque in low rpm, less power
ABY Cam, lot of torque passable power result
ADU Cam, passable torque high power output
NM Cam comes very close to the ADU cam but was way cheaper

If i could choose i prefer the ABY cam cause i think torque is much more important than horsepowers!


Please contact me, if you need my help.

[K7ERG]

Interesting thread this- well for me as i have a similar setup just need to get it mapped but now have a figure i am aiming for now. V-power fuel so close to 100ron

7a cam
GT3071R .63
Tubular EM
Large front mount with 2.5" pipe work
8.5.1 comp
3" Downpipe/system
Vems ECU
550ccm Injectors
Adjustable FPR

@ Monstereddie What power do you think i will achieve?


Craig

[SR71]

also did the experience with the RS4s. If the dyno does not cool down the car right and you have the biggest turbos and huge ICs it always breakes down at 441hp. No matter what you do, there is the limit. We measured a RS4 with 2 waterhoses on the ICs and it delivered like 500 and more if it is cool enough.

Hi,

Can you comment on the B7 RS4's you have dyno'ed?

It seems that no-one has ever measured a stock B7 RS4 at 414bhp?!

But as you suggest, perhaps that will only be the case if you put the 4.2 on an engine dyno!

However, we have owners here in the UK who have forced Audi to take the car back because their experience(s) on dynos here in the UK illustrated that the car is not producing what Audi have claimed!

I was absolutely amazed that Audi have taken this step because I would have thought that the owner would have had to take his engine out of the car and have it engine-dynoed for Audi to capitulate.

However, it was argued that this is unreasonable and that if Audi claim that a car produces 414bhp, then putting the car on a standard dyno should deliver that amount of power +/- 5%.

What are yout thoughts on the matter?

[th.b.w.]

My S2 3b with 3071 did at first run 391 PS , second run 371PS and third run 364 PS.

With RS2 exhaust, intercooler, injectors, airbox...

3b ignition, intake, cams...

76mm downpipe, kats empty, 70mm BN-Pipes...

Boost 1,85 OB, 1,65 at 6500, bit of surging between 3.300 - 3.800 mapped by Erdal on the street.

Want to change intake and exhaust to Wagner.

Than testing a 7a exhaust cam.

Next project a ported head with oversize valves.....

Want to get out surging

Thomas