Engine Turnover but no spark - need HELP!!

[20V khan]

I have been speaking to others and trying a few things on my S2 1991 3b.

So far I've changed the G40,G4, and G28...with the usual fault codes of 'Engine speed senor' - No signal. I also have a spare ignition coil pack just in case.

Narrowing it down i thought it may be the ECU which isnt sending the signal back to the coil.

Timing reference pin has also been checked and is in solid, although i found the timing out by two teeth which i have now rectified....still no joy

Question would the distributor alignment cause the coil not to spark, although i have tried afew different settings.

Would be great if anyone could assist!!

The real fun has just begun..

thanks

Khan

[S2central.net]

The pulse from distributor MUST line up with every other crankshaft reference pulse. Search for my waveform posts for now, but I'm going to write up a full article on this with more details. It seems to be getting asked more and more recently. PLEASE take time to search thru similar threads.

[20V khan]

Thanks...im still scanning through past threads..

So far iv checked the timing..thats ok now! was out by two teeth
Changed G40, G4,G28
checked motor fuses...5A, 20A both fine and show live current with ignition on
checked the pin in the flywheel....that fine.
My immobilser works fine as it allows me to crank the engine, without immobilising it wouldn't enable cranking over.
Now about to check for waveforms...or some pulse/resistance with multimeter.

Is there any relays related to the ignition system other than the 215-jetronic in the top fuses plate.

Khan

[S2central.net]

Thats not ALL the fuses - get onto www.s2central.net and the technical section with Motronic info. The coils are protected by a separate fuse for one thing - well on ABY they are.

Only relay of note is for the fuel pump... That gets activated when the ECU sees the engine turning (presence of RPM signal from G28).

An LED on pin 2 of G40 (CMP) should pulse every camshaft rotation. G28 and G4 needs a scope to see them. Resistance checks tell you very little on them.

12V pulses on the fuel injectors should be visible while cold cranking - that would prove you have a G28 signal, but you cannot get sparks unless G4, G28 and G40 are all healthy.

[spink]

when you say it was out by 2 teeth was that the cam sprocket?if so see no.2

1.make sure non of the flywheel teeth have snapped off
2.camshaft pulley has not sheared it's location key into the cam(very fragile),although it appears to turn with the engine rotation it is not actually insink with the dizzy/ecu

had both of the above on different cars

[twoqu]

This might be useful if you haven't seen it before:

http://www.s2forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35268

Another mechanical issue may be the plastic gear on the end of the distributor. This can brake up and the dizzy no longer rotates. You would have to remove the can cover and turn engine manually to se whether it actually turns.
HTH!

[20V khan]

Cant say 100% about the cam pulley but il get on to that tonight and check that out I may be the case of belt jumped. Or replaced incorrectly by previous owner.. It did have cam belt done before I bought it…Bare in mind guys this car has only done a mere 69 000 miles…I bought it from a 50 year old gentleman.

Condition was imac in every way…anyway back to work….

I do think I may have the dizzy aligned out of sync

Seen as iv got a new dizzy the cog/gear is now metal...but the hall sender is now revised compared to the old one, as the little sender is in complete different location, right next to the 3pin plug. This may have something to do with the hall sender gateway for the timing pin reference.

Back soon keep...the posts cumming

cheers

Khan

[twoqu]

Hold it!
Where did you get this new dizzy from? If it is correct for the vehicle then it will be identical to the old or the pics from the thread about alignment. I think i recall somebody else being supplied a dizzy that was all wrong although it was ages ago. Think he got it from some company in Essex who didn't know there ars from their elbow.
Double check that or post some pics of it!

[newsh]

That dizzy must be wrong if its not the same.

The dizzy timing must be absolutely spot on, roll the car forward, in gear, till the cam wheel mark and flywheel mark line up, the dizzy mark must line up exactly, adjust the dizzy to suit.

[20V khan]

Hi guys,

Cheers for the advice great stuff! HEY! Guess what got it fired up and running to day after a late one in the garage (circa 2am!)

What i did was by the book...line the distributor rotor head with the casing mark as shown by your pictures...after i tightened every thing up i tried to start it didn't start!

The distributor i got new from:
ignitionparts

is different from the one from the factory but was told it was a replacement for the older design.

What i did in the end was to ignore the factory mark on the casing of the distributor and align the rotor head with the copper mark on the hall sendor and got a spark. After i tightened it up .. no spark.. i then loosened the distributor slightly and during cranking i rocked the distributor on its axis and managed to catch the spark and the engine fired up! (Pictures to follow)

I have noticed my timing is out i didn't use the zero mark on the fly wheel when i adjusted the timing last so that will be tomorrows job. But its only out by about 10mm so no worries there.

So to sum up the car is running very well with this distributor, bar the internal markings where not to be used and aligning the rotor head with hall sender worked.

Hopefully when i adjust the timing belt all should be sweet!

Khan

[20V khan]

Another thing!!

Can somebody tell me how many degrees BTDC ignition timing should be??

Looking through the Hole in the box im checking the timing with the timing gun. Need to no what degrees to set it at??

Khan

[newsh]

The marks must all line up at TDC. Motronic looks after the rest. Ignition timing CANNOT be set accurately with a timing light.

If the marks are not correct you will have issues on boost, the ECU thinks its detecting knock, retards the ign. and throws a load of fuel in, BTDT If you dont have the correct rotor arm and dizzy you can get spark hop and bend a rod or 2..

[Nj]

Hold it!
Where did you get this new dizzy from? If it is correct for the vehicle then it will be identical to the old or the pics from the thread about alignment. I think i recall somebody else being supplied a dizzy that was all wrong although it was ages ago. Think he got it from some company in Essex who didn't know there ars from their elbow.
Double check that or post some pics of it!

that was me. what a headache it was too. Got it from probedistributors.co.uk
then got a 2nd one, which was also wrong. If I remember right they looked almost the same but the timing markings were in the wrong place on one and the hall sensor was on the wrong side on the other one. The initial problem on the original was my plastic dizzy gear had shattered. Getting the wrong parts meant i was turning my head inside out and took weeks to find the problem.

good luck

[S2central.net]

Another thing!!

Can somebody tell me how many degrees BTDC ignition timing should be??

Looking through the Hole in the box im checking the timing with the timing gun. Need to no what degrees to set it at??

Khan

NO NO NO - it does not work like that. The S2 is old, but its not a dinosaur !!!!!

All you have to do is align all the physical timing marks up on crank, camshaft and dizzy - after that the ECU is entirely responsible for setting the timing.

All you can do with timing light is *observe* what timing is used - expect about 10 BTDC at warm idle - but you can just as easily 'see' that on VAGCOM.

[newsh]

that was me. what a headache it was too. Got it from probedistributors.co.uk
then got a 2nd one, which was also wrong. If I remember right they looked almost the same but the timing markings were in the wrong place on one and the hall sensor was on the wrong side on the other one. The initial problem on the original was my plastic dizzy gear had shattered. Getting the wrong parts meant i was turning my head inside out and took weeks to find the problem.

good luck

We got there in the end though, eh Noel?