HELP - URS4 Not Starting...no spark...immobilzer??

**Dpicariello** · 16 March 2009, 22:24

Have a read through this. Reads like a bit of a saga but this was the reason for mine not starting.

Hall Sender

Have a search for hall senders on here if your cars is producing these codes.

Dan

**lcsmith** · 16 March 2009, 22:43

Thats the thing I don't know what codes if any are being produced because I haven't plugged it in yet...............which leads me to the next question how do you plug it in and how do you retrieve the codes?.......is it that flashing bulb milarky?

In that thread there are mentions of leaving the ECU fuses out for a period of time and that resets the ECU, where are the ECU fuses located, is it in the passengers footwell along with the ECU or what?

**Dpicariello** · 17 March 2009, 06:14

Someone else who knows more about the URS4 will need to confirm but here's how you read codes using a jumper wire and an LED on an ABY.
Blink Codes
Click on "Technical" on the left, and then on "Engine & Tuning", then "Motronic ECU", then "Diagnostics" then "Blink Code Pages"

Again on an ABY, to reset the ECU:
On the "fuzzy photo" in the above link there are two fuses with a red plastic cover with "Moteur". If you pull these out and leave the car for a while. Some people quote 20 mins but I leave them out for a few hours to be sure.

I hope it's the same on your car, there are plenty of people on here with URS4's though.

**lcsmith** · 17 March 2009, 23:23

I've tested the fuses at the ECU and they're fine and then I left them out for an hour to see if that would reset the ECU as described in the thread link above but no luck......

I then tried to start it WITHOUT the chip key in the dashboard and the immobilizer light blinking, the car won't even turn over! then pop the chip key back in the socket and it turns over.......so to me that suggests that the immobilizer isn't the problem.

I've left the battery disconnected overnight...........maybe that will reset any ECU problems.................?

WHATS NEXT;

While bleeding the clutch my father thinks he may have disturbed a sensor down at the back of the engine block at the bulkhead, so I suppose I'll check that everything is fine there, that wouldn't be a crankshaft sensor would it?.........if that doesn't work then............
.......I'm going to try the blink codes, I got a "how to" from www.sjmautotechnik.com only problem is its for USA cars, hopefully won't be too different, the website does have pics to refer to.

Anyway heres all the troubleshooting tips;

SJM Autotechnik: Fault Code Reading

1992-1996 S4/S6 with AAN 5 cylinder 20V Turbo engine

The S4/S6 with 5 cylinder 20V, with the Motronic ECU has a non volatile memory for the fault codes that can be read later even if the car has been turned off after the road test. There should be two connectors grouped together inside the relay box under the hood near the driver side windshield area.

Remove the cover off the relay box and you should see two fault code connectors, one Black and one white. 2 shows the rear terminals on the black and white connector, 1 shows the front terminals in the black and white connectors

Using the Factory VAG1551, VAG1552 or the VAG-COM diagnostic PC interface and software 1992-1996 S4/S6 with AAN 5 cylinder 20V Turbo engine

If you are using the VAG-COM PC Interface and Software with the VAS5051/2 twin lead adapter, or the VAG1551 or VAG1552 Factory Scan tool leads, you will insert the black connector lead into the black diagnostic connector, and the white connector lead to the white diagnostic connector.

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BLINKING OUT THE CODES

Using the CHECK ENGINE Light Bulb: 1992-1996 S4/S6 with AAN 5 cylinder 20V Turbo engine A short piece of wire is used to short across the front terminals (1 as shown above) for 4 seconds to activate the fault code sequence

This fault code reading sequence should be done with the engine running because if the engine is not running you may get a false code (2111 or 2112, RPM and TDC sensors) or 2234 (supply Voltage) code even though there is nothing wrong with these items.

If the fault code process does not work, make sure there is +12V and a good ground on the black fault code connector. Fuse #19 on the 1992-95 S4/S6 provides +12V to this fault code connector terminal. These are the same connectors you would use when connecting the factory VAG1551 or VAG1552 scan tool. The "Check" engine light in the instrument panel (dashboard) will blink out the fault codes after the jumper is removed after the 4 second period.

The operators manual refers to this "Check" engine light as the "Emission Control System (ECS) Malfunction Indicator Light." (MIL) If the "Check" engine light does not come on with the ignition key turned to the on position, then you may have a burned out bulb in the instrument panel. Some vehicles may not have this bulb installed at the factory.

If this is the case, you "may" be able to install a 1.2 Watt instrument panel light bulb (Osram 2721) into the empty socket with wiring behind the instrument cluster

As mentioned, with the engine idling, you activate the fault code system by connecting the jumper wire across the two terminals for four seconds and then remove the jumper, the ECU will then begin the sequence to blink out the fault codes.

NOTE: The fault code reading procedure will be canceled if the ignition is turned off. Each fault code consists of four groups of pulses.

The exact sequence for each code is a start sequence of 2.5 seconds with the lamp on, and 2.5 seconds pause with it off. The codes then follow as a half-second pulse with the Check Engine light on, separated by a half-second pause with the Check Engine light off, with a larger pause of 2.5 seconds between each set of pulses.

Example:If no fault codes are stored, code 4444 will be displayed by the ECU flashing the Check Engine Light.

The ECU will flash the Check Engine Light on and off as follows after the jumper wire is inserted into the connectors for 4 seconds and then removed. Light on (2.5 sec), Light off (2.5 sec)

Now here comes the code 4444

Blink, pause, Blink, pause, Blink, pause, Blink, (2.5 second pause)

Blink, pause, Blink, pause, Blink, pause, Blink, (2.5 second pause)

Blink, pause, Blink, pause, Blink, pause, Blink, (2.5 second pause)

Blink, pause, Blink, pause, Blink, pause, Blink, (2.5 second pause)

Code 2322 (Air Temp sensor) would be displayed as follows

:

In other words..... Blink, pause, Blink, (2.5 second pause)

Blink, pause, Blink, pause, Blink, (2.5 second pause)

Blink, pause, Blink, (2.5 second pause)

Blink, pause, Blink, (2.5 second pause)

The sequence of displayed pulses will repeat until the system is stepped to the next fault code stored (if any) by connecting the jumper wire across the connectors again for 4 seconds. The Check Engine Light will blink once at 2.5 second intervals to indicate that the last error code has been read.

Use a note pad to write down the fault codes as they are displayed and then check for the specific fault code description listed in the section below. Check the Bentley Manual for additional information.

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SJM Autotechnik: Erasing Fault Codes:

1992-1996 S4/S6 with AAN 5 cylinder 20V Turbo engine

In the early S4's, Fuse S26 (5 Amp) supplies power to pin 18 of the Motronic ECU for maintaining the fault code memory. You can remove this fuse S26 for a minute or so to erase any stored fault codes. This will also erase any learned ignition timing or adaptive fuel mixture values in the ECU.

This fuse is located above the Motronic ECU which is located underneath the passenger side floor carpet at the front of the foot well area. In the early S4's, there are two circuit breakers on the left, the 5 Amp fuse to the right, then one more circuit breaker to the right of the fuse.

The Carpet may need to be sliced up the left seam with a razor blade, to allow it to be pulled back. The black lower door threshold plastic trim should be removed first, then the right side kick panel before trying to pull back the carpet.

It is a pain to get at the Motronic ECU the first time, but gets easier with practice. After pulling back the carpet, there is a black plastic cover over the Motronic ECU and the fuse/circuit breakers. There are two screws that should be removed to get this black cover off.

The later model S4/S6 vehicles accordingly to the Bentley, use a 5 Amp circuit breaker, S102 designation, in the same location, instead of the 5 Amp fuse for this memory circuit.

For identifying this S102 breaker, it has a Red wire and a white/black stripe wire connected to it. Removing the circuit breaker for a minute or so, will accomplish the clearing of the memory.

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SJM Autotechnik: ECU Circuit Breakers:

1992-96 S4/S6 with AAN 5 cylinder 20V Turbo Engine [4]

Identifying the ECU circuit breakers I would visually check the color of the wiring used at each circuit breaker and match them to the Bentley wiring diagram colors for the specific year S4 or S6 you have.

For the 1992-93 S4, the Bentley shows S64 (15 Amp ckt breaker) with a BK (black) and BK/G (Black with Green Stripe) for supplying +12V to the Ignition Coils.

(Later S6 vehicles show the use of S115 breaker with the same wiring colors)

1992-93 S4: The Bentley shows S73 (12 Amp Breaker) with BK (Black) and Y (Yellow) wires, for supplying +12V to the O2 sensor heating element. S73 is shown to be located in Aux Relay Panel III (3), which is behind the right side (passenger) kick panel to the right of the box where the ECU is located.

The kick panel has a screw underneath the plastic plug, and you also need to remove the door sill plastic trip piece and a few screws on this sill trim to allow the kick panel to be pulled out.

The kick panel trim extends up the right side of the dash panel and is pulled down/out, so be careful to avoid cracking this plastic panel. 1994-96 Audi S6 shows the same S73 breaker is used for the O2 sensor heating element power supply, but is shown as a 15 amp breaker.

It is shown as being in the same location behind the right side kick panel, but with the different wiring colors, white wire coming into the circuit breaker from fuse box supplying +12V, then a Yellow wire going towards the O2 sensor which then turns into a white wire at the O2 sensor connector. Another yellow wire branches off at the circuit breaker and goes to the turbo cooling pump relay/module which should be mounted next to the circuit breaker S73 in the same Aux Relay Panel III.

1992-93 S4:

The Bentley shows S75 (12 Amp Breaker) with BL (Blue) and R (red) wires, for the Idle air, Evaporative Canister, and Waste Gate Solenoids. (1995 S6 shows the same S75 breaker is used with the same wiring colors)

1992-93 S4: The Bentley shows S72 (15 Amp Breaker) with BL (blue) and BK/R (Black with red stripe) wires for supplying +12V to the Fuel Injectors. (1995 S6 shows the use of S116 breaker with the same wiring colors) It appears that the same wiring colors were used on the later S6 vehicles, but double check the wiring diagram for your specific year.

Different numbers may have been used to designate the circuit breakers.

Note: the Bentley uses the German abbreviations for the wiring color codes on the later S4/S6 wiring diagrams. For example: ro is ROT in German for Red, sw is schwarz for Black. Previously the wiring diagram used BK for black, R was used for Red. Here is a close up photo of the circuit breakers and fuse on a 1992 S4, with my best guess as to the circuit breaker designations and locations.

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SJM Autotechnik: Output Tests

1992-96 S4/S6 with AAN 5 cylinder 20V Turbo Engine

There is also an "output test" mode that will cycle the engine electrical solenoids on and off to verify they are working correctly. You are able to test the 5 Fuel Injectors Idle Stabilizer Valve (ISV) Carbon Canister Solenoid Valve Waste Gate Solenoid (waste gate frequency valve)

To activate the Output Tests, you must first connect the Jumper Wire across the Fault Code Connectors as shown in the above diagram and THEN turn on the ignition to initiate the output tests. (DON'T START THE ENGINE) After the ignition is turned on, remove the jumper wire after at least 4 seconds.

FUEL INJECTOR TESTS: After you have removed the jumper wire, you can place your fingers down on fuel injector #1 and then open and close the throttle with your other hand. You should hear and feel #1 Injector click 5 times and then be quiet, place your fingers on Injector #2 and again open and close the throttle, Injector #2 should click 5 times, place your fingers on Injector #4 and open and close the throttle, Injector #4 should click 5 times, repeat for Injectors #5, then Injector #3
After doing the last injector test on #3 the Output test will switch to testing the IDLE STABILIZER VALVE (ISV). You should hear this Idle Stabilizer Valve clunk open and closed..
Connect the jumper wire again for 4 seconds to go to the next output test:
The blue Carbon Canister valve behind the idle stabilizer valve (behind throttle area) will be cycled on and off. You may want to place your hand around the carbon canister valve to feel it operate.
Connect the jumper wire again for 4 seconds
The Waste Gate Solenoid on the intake boot near the turbo inlet will be cycled on and off. This valve operation is pretty loud, so you should be able to hear it operate.
Connect the jumper wire again for 4 seconds.
;End of Output Test Procedure, fault code memory has been cleared.
NOTE: To repeat the Output tests, the ignition should be turned off for at least 20 seconds. If Output tests are repeated, the INJECTORS will NOT be cycled again, unless the engine is started and run briefly.

Thanks for reading again any comments / views / experiences welcome!!

**S2central.net** · 18 March 2009, 00:34

Jees - no need for mad cut and paste from SJM...

There are two very important sensors down at the flywheel. Namely the crank reference sensor (G4) and the rpm sensor (G28) - both are needed for the engine to start.

A 3rd sensor is needed to get sparks - the camshaft position sensor (G40).

If you search for these terms on here you'll find lots of BTDT and how to test these sensors. In truth its hard to test them properly without an oscilloscope though, but they sometimes fail in a way that raises fault codes - but they don't always fail that way.

**lcsmith** · 18 March 2009, 13:08

Originally posted by S2central.net

Jees - no need for mad cut and paste from SJM...

There are two very important sensors down at the flywheel. Namely the crank reference sensor (G4) and the rpm sensor (G28) - both are needed for the engine to start.

A 3rd sensor is needed to get sparks - the camshaft position sensor (G40).

If you search for these terms on here you'll find lots of BTDT and how to test these sensors. In truth its hard to test them properly without an oscilloscope though, but they sometimes fail in a way that raises fault codes - but they don't always fail that way.

Sorry about the mass text paste but I thought if people did use this thread as a reference in the future, the info would be right there for them.................anyway....

Thanks for this info, very interesting I will be checking these FIRST, that camshaft position sensor sounds like it could be the one however while doing a bit more reading on SJM I came across this, so heres another small paste (sorry) about the hall sensor, which sounds promising I did think the car wasn't running "perfect" and thought that the exhaust fumes looked a bit iffy, but just put that down to the car not being run for two months and needing a "spring" clean as it were..........

The 1992-95 S4/S6 have a hall effect sensor that is mounted behind the camshaft gear in front of the engine. The Camshaft gear needs to be removed in order to replace the Hall Effect Camshaft Sensor
This Hall Effect Sensor is also used as a reference for the knock sensor operation. The Hall Effect sensor is a semiconductor junction that changes conduction characteristics when exposed to a magnetic field. The Hall Effect Sensor has a metal trigger wheel with a window to expose the sensor to a magnetic field.
NOTE: If the Hall Effect sensor fails, the engine can not be started, but if the hall sensor fails when the engine is running, the engine will keep running and the ECU will use the reference sensor and engine speed sensor, but the ignition timing will be retarded by 6 degrees.

.......so this would fit my symtoms exactly! If the three sensors that s2central have nothing to do with it the hall effect sensor is next!

Cheers

**S2central.net** · 18 March 2009, 14:51

The 'hall effect sensor' = my 'camshaft position sensor' = G40

Nothing new here - this is a common failure.

Early AAN has G40 inside the dissy housing.
Later ones have G40 under the camshaft pulley - as do all ABY and ADU.

Theres a 3 pin plug onto G40. With a 5V LED you can hook up a quick test at pin 2 (TWO) of G40 - you should see it pulse OFF every camshaft revolution.

Search for ECU or Motronic Waveforms on here for more info what the G40 and other signals look like.

**lcsmith** · 21 March 2009, 11:00

So here's a little update...........

Wednesday night;
I checked that the area around the ECU was dry, then took out all the fuses checked them, then left them out for about a hour, then tried to start it again no joy.
I disconnected the battery and left it.

Thursday night;
I connected up the battery and tried it no joy.
Tried that magic water down the back of the cam belt trick, then tried to start it nothing.........
So again I disconnected the battery and left it.

Today;
Connected up the battery and then it started...........seems to be running away fine.

There's only one thing that I'm wondering about, the last journey I had before the car wouldn't start the speedo wasn't working, went to fuel up the car and started it up at the pumps and set off and the speedo was working again...........then after I parked it up at the house it wouldn't start.
So anyway today after I got it started and took it for a run, the speedo isn't working again, anybody had this before, this doesn't have anything to do with it does it?

Anyway long and the short of it, I'm going to order a cambelt, 5 x spark plug tubes and I figured I might order a cam sensor at the same time, at least then I'll know it not that.

**lcsmith** · 23 March 2009, 08:21

Won't start again today....................so I guess its an intermittant fault.....if I'm honest I didn't think that would be the end of it!

I'm gonna get on an order the cam belt, 5 x spark plug tubes, and I'm gonna check out the price of a new cam sensor and one of the other ones down at the flywheel, if its not that expensive then I might as well order them at least then I can rule that lot out.

**lcsmith** · 23 March 2009, 14:03

Just got prices from Audi for the following;

Cam Belt - £38.02.....................gsf carparts - £20.99
Spark Plug Tubes - £116.09
Camshaft Position Sensor (G40) - £153.87
RPM Sensor (G28) - Engine Speed Sensor - £102.87

So.....I think I'm gonna test the sensors before ordering.
The spark plug tubes, are they available from anywhere else cheaper? GSF carparts don't do them.............

Thanks

**S2central.net** · 23 March 2009, 17:12

Rent or Borrow an oscilloscope to test the sensors - anything less is an utter waste of time... Even with that - will not help a lot with an intermittent fault - which G40 is famous for.

If you are doing cambelt then also get a new tensioner and water pump (unless it was replaced recently) - and the thermostat when you have all that nice front access - and same goes for the two stupid water link hoses near the thermostat. You'll hate paying for the extra parts now, but you'll hate the siuation worse when 6 months down the line one of these other parts fails on you and its all gotta come apart again.

**iain1067** · 23 March 2009, 17:27

Conlog was an vw/audi dealer fit immobilser i think from the darkest dim parts of my memory. Have you managed to get the codes yet???? where are you located??? anyone local with vag com and a 2x2 connector which you will need to scan the car (the plugs are either in the fusebox in the engine bay or under the dash drivers side near where the bonnet release is).

**Jas11n** · 24 March 2009, 03:38

Originally posted by lcsmith

The spark plug tubes, are they available from anywhere else cheaper?

See HERE

**lcsmith** · 24 March 2009, 09:08

Originally posted by Jas11n

See HERE

Thanks I think I may have just managed to jump on the group-buy bandwagon (MASSIVE SAVING from £116 to £24!!), my ones have gone REALLY brittle, I'm scared to look at them never mind touch them!

Update;
Last night wouldn't start again popped the bonnet, and wiggled the wires going from the (G28) & (G4) down at the flywheel, and she started, wiggled them again she wouldn't start...........so it seems it could be a broken wire. I thought excellent I'll just run new wires between the sensor and the plug, but the sensor is a sealed unit, so when you buy the sensor you obviously get the sensor wiring and plug for the other end, all in one.

So I'm going to investigate further tonight, and remove the sensors and basically have a better look at it..............

Thanks for all your help,
Cheers!

HELP - URS4 Not Starting...no spark...immobilzer??

HELP - URS4 Not Starting...no spark...immobilzer??

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