Sport Quattro Turbos & Exhaust Manifolds

[s2avant]

On the subject of fitting uprated turbos and manifolds. Is it possible to fit the K27 turbo and manifold from a sport quattro (KW engine). If it can be done what kind of power/torque gains could be expected?

I ask because I just looked at the prices and it now works out about the same price (if not slightly cheaper) than the RS2 equivalent.

Any thoughts/comments/ideas?

Ben

[S2central.net]

Ahhh yes - it can be done alright, but plenty other mods will be needed to complement a K27 turbo. Reckon on 400-450bhp depending on how lairy you wanna be.

The K27 isn't gonna be as torquey low down and lag will be greater than K26 derived RS2.

Paul

[s2avant]

Are we talking about a massive drop in low end torque and equally massive increase in turbo lag? I assume some of it can be reduced by some top notch mapping by yourself.

What else would be needed to go along the K27?

I'm just thinking out loud at the moment, but I would certainly like to work out the feasibility of converting to the K27 (or a hybrid) and how it would affect the driveability of the car. As utopian as it sounds I don't want a big hike in power at the expense of drivability.

Ben

[S2central.net]

Add an RS2 intercooler,
Stir in five RS2 fuel injectors,
Whisk with a camshaft from RS2 or 7A engine
Revised ECU contents along with a 3bar MAP sensor
And an RS2 or bigger MAF would be less restrictive

If you want more than 550Nm of torque then reckon on suitably expensive conrods to be on the safe side with associated new B/E bolts etc.

Paul

[s2avant]

Sounds like a not too unreasonable list. Hell I've already got the intercooler, only another couple of grand to go.

Would the RS2 injectors be a neccessity? How much power could reliably be produced from ABY ones?

Am I correct in assuming the RS2/7A camshaft will put back some of the lost low end torque?

I'm sure I read somewhere that one of the porsche MAFs had even better flow than the RS2 one and was cheaper. Any clues as to which one?

On the torque issue, I assume it would be possible to limit it in some way (a la Mister Halligans Beast) to avoid conrod bending. I would think around 500Nm is enough for an everyday road car

My main issue will be the drivability. I don't want to turn it into an all or nothing racer nor do I want to put my foot down and have a couple days wait before the turbo spools up. Any clues as to how the power delivery would be? With 400 bhp I would imagine Marks is probably the closest to this conversion.

Sorry about all the questions, but I'd like to get a reasonable idea of what I'm getting into if I decide to go ahead. The reason for exploring this avenue is that I would like to use as many off the shelf parts as possible. Doe's anyone know what kind of modification will be needed to the oil lines etc on the turbo?

Ben

[s2avant]

Ignore my comments about RS2 injectors, I've just looked at the dealer cost of them (£48.85 + VAT each). That makes them cheaper than standard ABY ones.

I priced up the costs of all the bits you listed above:
(Price in brackets is dealer cost)

RS2 Intercooler    £ 243.60   (£ 168.08)
RS2 Injectors      £  82.81   (£  48.85) ea
RS2 Camshaft       £ 669.00   (£ 535.20)
or 
7A Camshaft        £ 327.58   (£ 226.03)
RS2 MAF            £ 390.60   (£ 312.48)

Totals: RS2 Cam    £1717.25   (£1260.01) +VAT
        7A Cam     £1375.83   (£ 950.84) +VAT

The turbos and manifolds are:

RS2
Turbo              £1299.34   (£1039.47)
Manifold           £ 487.80   (£ 366.24)

Totals:            £1787.14   (£1405.71) +VAT

Sport Quattro
Turbo              £ 942.48   (£ 753.98)
Manifold           £ 783.26   (£ 677.51)

Totals:            £1725.74   (£1431.49) +VAT

As you can see there's not a lot of difference in the price of the bits, whether you go for RS2 or Sport Quattro.

Ben

Had to correct my adding up. That's what comes from trying to post and do proper work at the same time.

[S2central.net]

Interesting price list alright...

MarkH's car is indeed a good guide regards low end driveability. I've ridden shotgun a few times and whilst the peak torque (480Nm ish on a bloody hot day) is somewhere around 4500rpm there is gobs of the stuff around 3000rpm so it doesn't *feel* laggy to me, and Mark has never criticised that aspect either.

I think you both will be @ Billing so you might get a go if you ask nicely - it's a better adrenalin ride than anything at Alton Towers

Of course a straight K27 sport turbo isn't the same as Mark's monster as he has a Turbonetics hybrid which includes a copy of the K26 #8 hot side so it will spool up quicker than a K27.

As for the RS2 MAF - yes there is a Porsche which uses the same MAF - think its a 968 from memory - would be better to track down the Bosch # and order that instead.

Would go with green RS2 injectors for ~400bhp especially given the price.

Cheers,

Paul

[Mark Halligan]

Heres a nice EM that was for sale on Ebay

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...category=40182

Mark.

[Pisobiker]

:eek2: 705 Euros !!!

If you want one I'll handcraft it for you at half the price. You give the specs (cylinder outlet diameter to turbine, turbine flange position, WG flange position) and the flanges; I'll do the rest .

Marco

[Mark Halligan]

Marco, I'm alright with my sport quattro EM , but I reckon that there might be a few here that might take you up on that, you could end up with a thriving business

Cheers, Mark.

[Pisobiker]

Well, if there is some interest in something like that I could probably find some artisan that could make all the flanges. The rest is a matter of choosing the best layout to suit flow needs and space under the bonnet. Having a SQ or MTM or whatever exhaust manifold of proven effectiveness, could not be impossible to make some copies at very resonable prices.

Maybe something to think about....

Marco

[Mihnea]

Marco, if you can do that, I'm definitely interested in one, just for the f*ck of it I want the WG at another location so it's almost invisible at tech inspections. My sport quattro EM is underway but if you can do something similar, tubular and with the flange that I need (K26), I'll definitely resell the SQ one!

Cheers,


Mihnea

[Josh-stateside]

Wish I could read this:

http://www.rstuning.nu/frameset.html

??????


So Who can read this? and what's the price? equate too?

[Josh-stateside]

As you can see I have a lot of time on my hands...

I do alot of Searching..

German, Swedish, Uk,.. all those website.. I probably have seen them.

I basically had to, to be honest. Finding the right pictures, and finding the right information. Has been key for me and my swap.

Cheers
Josh

p.s. I bet these guys have alot of fun with their audis

http://www.irry.com/

[Mark Halligan]

quote:
As you can see I have a lot of time on my hands...

Josh,

time well spent


Mark.