Oil advice for modifiers and track addicts!

[oilman]

The most important factor here is quality when the car is modified or used on track as you need an oil that will withstand the additional stresses without losing it's properties.

With regards to what to use, you need to ask us as not all cars are the same (the reason why we offer a bespoke service) as uses vary, driving styles, mods and oil temperatures.

As a general rule, always use an oil suited to the purpose, for tracking use a race oil etc and use as thinner oil as you can get away with based on the maximum oil temps experienced so as not to cause additional heat, friction and wear through viscous drag.

Sorry to be general but it's not straightforward..............you know where I am, feel free to ask via PM or via email sales@opieoils.co.uk or here via the Forum

http://www.s2forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18357&page=9

We feel it best to look at every case individually with the facts.

Cheers
Guy

[quattro84]

I seem to remember that BMW changed the oil requirements on one of their M cars to 10w60. However, this was supposedly due to a design flaw. Rod bearing problem or something if I remember correctly.

True. Easiest and most cheaply way to get rid of possible errors in a later stage of engine development.



Mr. Oilman, what do you think about 'running in' a brand new or rebuild engine on a mineral based oil?

I can't get my mind over it why it should be better to use mineral in stead of normal synthetic oil for braking in new engines.

[EspenW]

The theory behind using non synthetic oil for breaking an engine in is that the full synthetic is so good that the break in process will take a long time, increasing the risk of glazed bores and rings.
Dino oil=more friction= faster break in

Times are changing though, so not everyone subscribes to this school of thought anymore.

[oilman]

The man above is right but if you want a pretty speedy run-in (1000 miles) use a mineral or mineral based semi-synthetic

Cheers

[quattro84]

I hear a lot of stories from engine builders using a low grade petrolium based oil but with phorforus and zinc additives.
Using mineral oil for brake-in seemed a bit old-skool to me. Even Mobil and Kendall advised to use a normal synthetic oil.

I've seen 'glazing' on rebuild engines with my own eyes. Seems like the honing pattern in the cylinder isn't worn down by the piston rings but rather squashed.
My idea was that this comes from the different clearances, hardness, and roughness of the used materials.
Nowadays cilinderliners and pistonrings are very often coated with carbides and nitrides (like nikasil).
So really there is not that much wear-in anymore. Therefor i asked for the usage of mineral oils in new engines.

Cheers

[Jamo]

Technology may have moved on but the S2 engines are still from the 90's

Every engine builder I spoke to said use mineral oil for breaking in and I can't see a reason to doubt their advice

[oilman]

Here's something on the subject............

Using synthetic-oil in engine break-ins
By Road & Track, Technical Correspondence Column, July 2000 issue


Many readers have questioned us on engine break-in procedures when using synthetic oil. Conventional wisdom has it that a new or freshly rebuilt engine should be broken in using mineral oil, then, once enough mileage has accumulated to ensure rings and cylinder walls have lapped themselves into harmony, synthetic oil can be used.

Readers have correctly pointed out that several major brands come from the factory with synthetic oil, among these being Corvette, Mercedes-Benz and Viper. How can these engines break-in if run on synthetic oil from day one, they ask?

To find out, we spoke with Mobil and Redline Oil companies for their take on the synthetic break-in question. Mobil's response was that engines break-in just fine on synthetics, and that any wear point in the engine significant enough to be an interference, and thus susceptible to rapid wear, would be a wear point no matter what lubricant is used.

Redline, on the other hand, has found it best to recommend a mineral oil break-in. Occasionally an engine will glaze its cylinder walls when initially run on Redline, they say, so by using a mineral oil for 2000 miles, verifying there is no oil consumption and then switching to the synthetic, glazing is eliminated.

Cylinder-wall glazing is not a deposit left on the cylinder wall, but rather a displacement of cylinder-wall metal. This happens when the high spots of the cylinder wall crosshatch are not cut or worn off by the piston rings, but rather rolled over into the valleys or grooves of the crosshatch. This leaves a surface that oil adheres to poorly, against which the rings cannot seal well. Compression is lost and oil consumed, and the only cure is to tear down the engine to physically restore the cylinder-wall finish by honing.

Why is glazing not a problem for the major manufacturer? Because they have complete, accurate control over their cylinder-wall finish and ring type. Redline deals with a huge variety of engines and manufacturers, both OEM and from the aftermarket. Cylinder-wall finish and ring type thus vary greatly, and glazing can therefore occur, albeit rarely.

While we were at it, we queried about synthetic oil-change intervals. Mobil says to use the maximum change interval specified by the engine manufacturer, regardless of oil type. Redline said that once past an OEM warranty, anywhere from 10,000 to 18,000 miles, or one year, whichever comes first, is appropriate depending on conditions (dust, short trips). They also recommend changing just the oil filter at 6000 to 7000 miles as a precaution against overloading the filter. Redline further noted a caution when using synthetics with leaded fuels, as synthetics do not hold lead in suspension as well as mineral oil. Aviation is one area where leaded fuel is still widespread, and avgas is often used by off-road and racing enthusiasts, so a relatively short oil change interval may thus be indicated.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Synthetic Break-in
By Tom Wilson
Road & Track, Technical Correspondence Column, November 2001 issue


Exxon/Mobil's official policy is that their synthetic oil may be used at any mileage, including factory fill, unless otherwise stated by the vehicle manufacturer. Mobil pointed out, as you did, that all Corvettes, Vipers, Porsches and Aston Martins are factory filled with Mobil 1 synthetic. We can only conclude that improvements in cylinder-wall finish and ring design or materials makes this possible.

It is also likely that vehicle manufacturers not using synthetics as the factory fill are also not optimizing their cylinder and ring packages for the slippery sythetics, in which case approximately 1000 miles on mineral oil should prove ample break-in time. In fact, in modern engines a very high percentage of ring break-in takes place very quickly, probably in the first 10 to 20 minutes of engine running. Certainly, some final lapping of the rings and cylinders takes place over several hundred miles after initial break-in.

Just to add some confusion, Porsche dynos all of its engines before installing them in the chassis. We were unable to determine what oil is used for the dyno session, but would presume it's Mobil 1

Cheers
Guy

[Jamo]

Now that is a good read!

[EspenW]

Just to add some confusion, Porsche dynos all of its engines before installing them in the chassis. We were unable to determine what oil is used for the dyno session, but would presume it's Mobil 1

Most likely M1 during the dyno session too. Porsche used M1 as factory fill in the RS2 as well if memory serves. Porsche also dynoed all RS2 engines in order to make sure that they at least made the claimed 315ps (even though rolling road operators often claim they didn't even make 300hp, based on their ultra accurate ways of guessing exact flywheel power from whp). Who to believe?

[quattro84]

Technology may have moved on but the S2 engines are still from the 90's

The engine maybe from that era, honingskills and rings are from the present with different specs.

I know that a lot of classic motorbikes had similar problems with glazing.
They used to run cast iron cilinders with grey cast iron pistonrings in the early days.
Nowadays they use coated cilinderwalls with cr/ni alloy rings.
That ment the oil had to have different specs.

So, i guess synthetic oils can be used for breaking in judging by the previous quotes.

[Jamo]

Well pays your money takes your choice, I'm using the method of people experienced and who get paid to build engines for a living and are successful to boot.

And as Redline say use mineral oil

[4WheelDrifter]

I know some BMW engines are bench run in cold, so the oil used may not be the best choice for us.

[Mr.Crossfire]

True synthetic oils (PAO’s and Esters) contain basically no waxy contamination to cause crystallization and oil thickening at cold temperatures.

So do this kind of oils have something printed on the package to recognize them? I've been told/have read somewhere that if the package says "synthetic" it's propably semi-synthetic, part mineral oil etc. but if it is "fully synthetic", then it's really full synthetic -> better.
I've been also looking for VW/Porsche approved for example VW 505.01 or 507.01 etc. and considered those to be adequate for my use.

[oilman]

So do this kind of oils have something printed on the package to recognize them? I've been told/have read somewhere that if the package says "synthetic" it's propably semi-synthetic, part mineral oil etc. but if it is "fully synthetic", then it's really full synthetic -> better.
I've been also looking for VW/Porsche approved for example VW 505.01 or 507.01 etc. and considered those to be adequate for my use.

Some do, some don't. You can always ask us. You are more likely to find something on the hydrocracked oil containers that is a giveaway. Motul put Technosynthese on theirs, but most of them just go over the top describing the oil., making it sound like the best thing ever made, even though the same company sells better oils.

[Rocco]

me for example my mechanical friend said me that with the Castrol Edge 10W60 spececial for BMW M´s serie my engine will be very good and of course NEVER go hard with the engine and the oil cold with this 10W60 oil.....


2 years ago i´ve used M1 5W50 and works perfect too...