Weird Air Leak

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  • S2central.net
    Retired OG Mod
    • Jul 2003
    • 16590
    • Country: Northern Ireland

    #1

    Weird Air Leak

    Am I going insane or missing the obvious here ?

    I finally got a nice wee air compressor that is man enough for air leak tests and used the custom Teeside bungs for the first time on my car today.

    I used the bungs to block the breather connection between MAF pipe and cam cover. I used another bung to block the hose that enters the pressure pipe, and I bunged the hose into the wastegate with a 1/4" extension before using another bung with tyre valve to pressurise the entire system from the MAF hose.

    It doesn't hold pressure basically... but the really weird thing is that I can hear a bubbling noise that sounds for all the world like air leaking past an oil seal (in the turbo) such that I think I hear bubbles in the sump. I can't hear an air leak anywhere else just frickin bubbles and the system holds no significant pressure.

    On the road, the car doesn't quite hold 1.4bar like it used to so I suspected a wee leak from maybe a new hose that wasn't quite tightened enough... or maybe a damaged intercooler.

    The car doesn't use any significant amount of oil so I'm wondering is this anomolie an early warning sign that an oil seal has seen better days. Obviously the seal is healthy enough that oil doesn't thru to the air cavity as I *NEVER* seen the car smoke.

    Or am I just going nuts having forgotten something stupid here ?

    Only thing that occurs to me now as I type is that if the TBV has failed in such a way that air is leaking past the diaphragm into the control hose then I could be pressuring the intake manifold which might explain air getting to the crankcase... but that TBV is only a month old... V.strange !


    Paul
    Paul Nugent
    Webmaster http://S2central.net
    Administrator http://S2forum.com

    1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
    2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
    2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

    Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

    There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't
  • Dr H
    S2Forum Extremist
    • Jul 2003
    • 1175
    • Country: England

    #2
    Good luck mate - these things can drive you mad! Mine is still a mystery.

    Any chance of setting a date for me to come and see you re mine?

    Cheers

    Leigh
    Ex 1994 Avant - now driving a Lotus 340r

    Comment

    • s2avant
      S2Forum Fiend
      • Jul 2003
      • 2426

      #3
      Jason who does most of the work on mine has seen a few ur-quattros and S2's that have had air leaks via (bizarre as it sounds) the crank rear main seal. I'll ask him more about it next week when I finally get my samcos fitted.

      Are you bringing your pressure testing kit to Billing? I'd like to get mine pressure tested after all the hoses are done to make sure they have cured my problems.

      Ben
      the best intentions are fraught with disappointment - gil grissom

      sigpic
      1994 ABY Avant - it's getting there

      Comment

      • Dr H
        S2Forum Extremist
        • Jul 2003
        • 1175
        • Country: England

        #4
        Originally posted by s2avant
        Jason who does most of the work on mine has seen a few ur-quattros and S2's that have had air leaks via (bizarre as it sounds) the crank rear main seal. I'll ask him more about it next week when I finally get my samcos fitted.
        Ben
        Interesting - this is one of the only things I haven't changed in my attempt to find my leak . Drove the car today and with the window down the air leak noise is amazing from the outside - I'm loosing it from somewhere but I'm damned if I can work it out!

        Leigh
        Ex 1994 Avant - now driving a Lotus 340r

        Comment

        • Corey
          Banned
          • Sep 2003
          • 2793
          • Country: United Kingdom

          #5
          I started reading this thread, I got half way down reading Pauls bit and just thought rear crank oil seal.

          £tenner on the table.
          Corey
          01636 822288

          Comment

          • S2central.net
            Retired OG Mod
            • Jul 2003
            • 16590
            • Country: Northern Ireland

            #6
            Rear crank seal ???

            How the f*** would air get there when I 'm pressure testing with all routes to the crankcase blanked off.

            I repeated the test with 2bar of pressure entering the hose which normally connects to compressor output and its absolutely beautifully leak free from there thru the intercooler to the pressure pipe. The test included the TBV which needs held shut with a little pressure (from MityVac) on the control hose.

            But when i force air into the compressor inlet via the MAF hose, with ventilation blanked off and WG control blanked off, I get the gurgling noise and no way to hold pressure so I can only assume my 10yr old K24 is finally heading south. Must say when driving it still goes like a scalded cat - but annoyingly keen on hitting a consistent max of 1.4bar boost - sometimes it peaks at 1.3bar.

            So now the dilemma - to go with an RS2 upgrade or maybe dabble on the dark side with a K24 variant for one of the Volvo T5 engines. I need its compressor map though before I decide anything. If I go RS2 then I know it will be a money pit with a desire for the RS2 EM, green injectors, big rods and all the mentalist bits... Don't even get me started on a GT30R ;-)

            But if the Volvo's K24 can crunch a real world 300bhp on the redline (maybe needing RS2 intercooler) with bags of torque from 2500rpm then I'd be happy enough...

            I'll bring the compressor and bung kit to Billing to see if this weirdness is unique to my car. Who can bring a wee mains generator - my DC-AC inverter probably hasn't gut the gumption to power the compressor.


            Paul
            Paul Nugent
            Webmaster http://S2central.net
            Administrator http://S2forum.com

            1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
            2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
            2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

            Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

            There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

            Comment

            • newsh
              S2Forum Obsessed
              • Aug 2003
              • 16226
              • Country: United Kingdom

              #7
              Firstly, if the crankcase gets pressurised something is wrong, it should have vacuum, a ur will stall if you remove the oil filler cap as the vacuum to the inlet is broken and the mixture upset. If the rear crank seal is leaking the vacuum will cause a screeching noise that will stop when the oil filler cap is removed.

              Paul, I would say, is blowing air through the turbo bearings into the sump.

              Of course the input to the turbo does not have to withstand boost, the pressure is created by the rotor and is highest near the exit to the IC.

              In fact, thinking about it, the pressure will be quite low in the middle near the shaft, n'est ce pas?
              Last edited by newsh; 19 June 2004, 21:21.

              S2 Coupe 3B Project


              Ur quattro restoration

              S2 Avant

              Boost is the new rock and roll!
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              • porkkis
                S2Forum Extremist
                • Aug 2003
                • 1994
                • Country: Finland

                #8
                I totally agree with newsh. You might want to unbolt the oil return pipe and see if it has any effect.

                If someone can acuire the compressor map for the 60r volvo 74 series k24, please do share it with us. I'm very interested in it.
                Firstly I'll try to ask some turbo expert if it can be built to normal casings as the volvo uses somewhat strange integrated by-pass and WG-design. I'll tell you when I get the answer.
                -

                Comment

                • Beetie
                  S2Forum Extremist
                  • Oct 2003
                  • 1517
                  • Country: England

                  #9
                  Originally posted by s2avant
                  Jason who does most of the work on mine has seen a few ur-quattros and S2's that have had air leaks via (bizarre as it sounds) the crank rear main seal. I'll ask him more about it next week when I finally get my samcos fitted.

                  Are you bringing your pressure testing kit to Billing? I'd like to get mine pressure tested after all the hoses are done to make sure they have cured my problems.

                  Ben
                  And one of them was mine, believe it or not
                  Was a '93 3B, Dont ask now tho......

                  Comment

                  • Corey
                    Banned
                    • Sep 2003
                    • 2793
                    • Country: United Kingdom

                    #10
                    Originally posted by S2central.net
                    Rear crank seal ???

                    How the f*** would air get there when I 'm pressure testing with all routes to the crankcase blanked off.
                    Corey
                    01636 822288

                    Comment

                    • newsh
                      S2Forum Obsessed
                      • Aug 2003
                      • 16226
                      • Country: United Kingdom

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Corey
                      There goes your tenner mate

                      S2 Coupe 3B Project


                      Ur quattro restoration

                      S2 Avant

                      Boost is the new rock and roll!
                      sigpic

                      Comment

                      • S2central.net
                        Retired OG Mod
                        • Jul 2003
                        • 16590
                        • Country: Northern Ireland

                        #12
                        Agree with Newsh that intake side of compressor is not designed to be pressurised, so maybe the test is a little unfair... Has anybody else tested like this and found the oil seal in the turbo to be airtight ?


                        Paul
                        Paul Nugent
                        Webmaster http://S2central.net
                        Administrator http://S2forum.com

                        1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
                        2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
                        2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

                        Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

                        There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

                        Comment

                        • porkkis
                          S2Forum Extremist
                          • Aug 2003
                          • 1994
                          • Country: Finland

                          #13
                          I have pressurised the whole system. This means that also the crankcase ventilation was under pressure. Only leaks were oil filler cap and naturally the x-member to ic joint
                          -

                          Comment

                          • Graham
                            S2Forum Extremist
                            • Jul 2003
                            • 1622
                            • Home: United Kingdom Current: Australia

                            #14
                            Hi Paul, ages ago when i tested mine at work (plummed it into the plant air system) mine leaked exactly the same, bubbles through the turbo shaft. Later once i had removed the hoses the turbo shaft has a small amount of play in it so i am assuming its on its last legs, i am getting a new one this year at some point.
                            Glad the bungs work though, could you get enough air through the tyre valves as thet seemed to be the only weak point as they will only allow a small volume of air through, i used a 1/2"bsp fitting on the bung i have and got a 25psi plant air feed with large flow.
                            Graham
                            Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler.--:Albert Einstein

                            Comment

                            • Crawford_S2
                              S2Forum Extremist
                              • Jul 2003
                              • 1555
                              • Home: Scotland Current: England

                              #15
                              Mine did the bubble thing coming from sump type noise, i assumed as above that the oil seal in the turbo isn't designed to take direct pressure like this so didn't panic but you can still get enough pressure in it to do the old soapy water spray on all suspected areas and wait for the glorious bubbles!
                              Ragusa Coupe gone!
                              sigpic
                              VW T4 Multivan. TSW Holstens hiding in the garage for the winter.
                              VW Mk1 Caddy pickup, modded or "ruined"
                              vw T5 Kombi. In the process of being "ruined"

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