450-500bhp parts list

[Jamo]

Talking about stand alone vs Motronic, is there any software around for Motronic with a little MAF over 400-500hp?

Audiman had 600 bhp with a MAF on his S2. If the tuner is skilful enough it's not an issue, certainly isn't for Mihnea and MRC

[Rusty]

Single mass is nice Rusty like.

[xgordyx]

Have you got the chassis sorted, brakes etc.? You'll need exhaust sorted too. My car requires engine rebuild, turbo & EM, injectors, clutch and remap and I guess £5-6k for a 3071 or £3-4k for an RS2 setup, that's having spent about £6-7k on sorting the chassis and ancillaries... For your power requirements I'd suggest you could spank £8-10k easily on the engine and a further £6-7k on brakes, exhaust, chassis etc. Call it £15k for ease of working. Or buy Audiman's old car that's on Pistonheads for £8 or £9k!

Good luck with it

I've got some of the bits for the chassis sorted out at the moment, all still lying in boxes in my spare bedroom. I know I still need to spend a few more k on it yet.
I've got the rs6 8pot set up to go on the front, not decided on what i'm doing with the rears yet. H&R cup kit and a set of polly bushes. Still to get new engine, gearbox and subframe mounts, diff mounts and a pair or ARBs. I've got a 3" cat back exhaust to fit too, just need to get DP made but need to have whatever turbo i go for fitted first.
I'm fully aware of the cost and to be honest i would as i'm sure most people that throw silly money at an old car will agree, you start questioning yourself why and think "look at what i could have had with the cash i've spent!" But when it's all done it's worth it as it's individual and built to your own spec. And in all truth if you do things right you end up with a car that is essentially new.

[Jamo]

If your on a budget and want to keep costs down, RS2 turbo with 360 degree bearing and MRC high boost chip / remap = superb value for money.

the RS2 turbo is seriously underated due to the stock Audi map being, well pants

[Rusty]

Well on the way then

[xgordyx]

Well on the way then

Getting there. I'd bought most of the bits for my old 3b but lost heat in it as i got banned for nearly 2 year and started to strip the car in a tiny garage that i couldn't move in. I was also on a contract with my work where i didn't have a lot of time off at that time. My plan is to keep the car a semi running prject where i have it Taxed and moted all time so i can keep it in the car park (don't have a drive way) and not have to worry about it getting crushed and have plenty space to work on it.

[Jamo]

that is what i initially was after. 450hp,but this turbo will only get there if you really port the head, get some different timing and possibly get bigger/different exhaust to be able to push high boost on higher revs. Out of the 2 3071 turbos the 0.82ar should be able to go more towards the 450hp mark. Otherwise the car will be around the 400hp on various different dynos.

If you are interested in the numbers then you may be dissapointed on a dyno session, or be more or less ok.
GT3071R turbo is a bit tricky to map nicely on motronic.Apparently it can spool quite low, but with motronic it seems to surge and get boost flutter. I never had these problems once i switched to VEMS and boost comes soon and crisp.Indeed this setup is a very good everyday car, however it may still struggle next to an M3 and certainly an EVO. That also has to do with weight.

when i used the 3071R with the motronic the car pulled hard after 4000rpm on 3d gear and it seemed quite nice for everyday driving.Which is why im going for a bigger turbo solution that will hopefully not exceed the 4000rpm mark.(and has lots of potential)

Why do you think it surged on the stock ECU? because of the MAF or Mapping etc?

[A80Avant]

im not sure really.The surging issue was something Mihnea, Paul and Erdal noticed. By 'surging' i mean that when high boost was requested from early rpm (3000-3200) which the turbo can give, the boost would rise,then flutter,fall back and restabilize after 4000rpm. This was something that the duty cycle of the N75 combined with the original wastegate spring could not fix. Apparently using a stiffer wastegate spring did make things better,according to Bram who used this setup. When Erdal was mapping my car, the use of the 1.9bar spring took the boost all over the place, and Erdal didnt like it. In the end, we tuned the car with the original spring but delaying boost enough to stop the fluttering. So @ 3000 i could have 1.2bar , @ 3500 i could have 1.5bar and then it gradually rose to meet the 1.9bar which was supposed to.

All this disappeared as soon as i started using vems.Now i get 1.95bar (or more if i want to) on 4th gear @ 3400rpm and 3700rpm on 3d gear.
As Lee saw as well, on 5th and 6th gear i reach 2bar @ 3000rpm.

so all this may be just mapping really,as the technical aspect of the turbo didnt change.

[GazzaG60]

rs2 turbo is old junk as far as im concerned. you can get a wagner tubular and a t3/t04e of some sort for that money. you can get your power target for not too much. just avoid rs2 bits.

turbo's are about compromise. what you lose down bottom you gain up top. ask yourself what happens when you drive in a spirited manner. do you dump from 2k and change at 5k then back to 3k or do you dump at 2k hold to 6500 or so then change and back on it. or do you cog it down.

if its one of the last 2 which i believe it is for most then a bigger unit is your friend. changing at 6500 or so will result in rpm dropping to 4k. picking a turbo when when you change gear your back in boost and its not spooling again. with a bigger unit that 6500rpm soon becomes 7xxx also. with bigger units you soon realise how asthmatic the smaller ones are and how a k24 is lost past 5500rpm

the flutter,surge you talk of Vas was the first reason in went eboost. mine did same on standard setup. cant expect miricles from a +10yr solenoid.

[A80Avant]

yes indeed, however audi still uses those type of solenoids on B5/B6 turbo engined cars for some reason even when boost can be so easily managed even with motronic and pneumatic solenoids

[xgordyx]

When I go for a spiritave drive, no half measures involved . I'm usually in the lowest gear possible at any time and revved up to just before the rev limiter. The thing is there is quite a few hills around where I stay and if I'm driving sensibly I'd be always changing down to get up them. I had an old BMW 525 years and years ago when the budget was less than zero. I had to make an exhaust for it as the one on it was totally unsalable inc the boxes so I set about with the stuff I had to hand, basically I ended up with a 2.5" system from dp back with two boxes (back box was straight through). This resulted in a loss of back pressure and the car was dead below 4k but went well after 4k. This did my head in going up hills and was embarrassing in traffic as it was a loud system the car was roaring like god knows what trying to get up a hill a fiesta could climb in 5th .
It's like you say Gazza just trying to find the right compromise between low end grunt and high HP output.

[Jamo]

I find it amazing people try and dismiss the RS2 turbo yet if you speak to members who have had that setup and moved on to higher power cars with Garrett 3076, 3586 etc they all to a man say the RS2 setup was the most fun and responsive they had.

If you can find a member near you in scotland with a remapped RS2 go out for a drive and see if you like it.

[GazzaG60]

thats fair try before you buy. but the title says 450-500hp.

comparitively speaking the tdo4 of a post 97 subaru is like the aby turbo and the pre 97 td05 is like the rs2. then ive seen all the way up to T04R turbos on cars and mapped them so my comments dont go without experience. they aint off the cuff. from a 290hp turbo to one that will produce over 1000. TBH the T04r is too big for the subaru but was great on the race spec motor over 5k. on the standard EJ20 was a bit on the large side.

[|Maku|]

I find it amazing people try and dismiss the RS2 turbo yet if you speak to members who have had that setup and moved on to higher power cars with Garrett 3076, 3586 etc they all to a man say the RS2 setup was the most fun and responsive they had.

For example I have driven a RS2 hardware a few years ago and that for some time (about two years on different cars I think). For now I have driven my RS2 with T04E about year or so and I really dont miss RS2 turbo, I really don't. That's because RS2 doesn't have strong ending and in real life it starts to spool after 3500 rpm. For instance a couple of local guys gave their RS2 hardware Audis for me to try this year and I'm not impressed with it. Actually I remembered (wishful thinking) that they spool lower.

[Jonas_R]

Strange my RS2 turbo has full boost at 1.7-1.8 bar at around 3200-3300 RPM, however it is controlled via eboost2 in dual port setup.

Edit: That is in 3rd and 4th gear.