Alt.Hybrid Turbo Idea

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  • twoqu
    S2Forum Possessed
    • Sep 2003
    • 3103

    #16
    Guys,
    Even more confused now. The AET K24-K26 appears to be all K26. However it has a smaller turbine exit (50mm) and a larger (in terms of height of comp blades) comp wheel than a K26 from a MB Urq. The shaft is the larger K26 one. So why AET have put K24 on their tag is a mystery. Suppose I'll have to ask them!
    I am 100% sure of the MTM info. From the pic it definately looks like the 5071 housing as fitted to MB Urqs.
    I do know of a supposed K24 upgrade. Steve H had his hands on it a while back. Did mean to get hold of it to measure the comp wheel.
    Paul, the numbers on the comp housing, or indeed the turbine for that matter are meaningless if its a hybrid. To save money they usually machine existing housings. Somewhere there must be a definitive list of the comp wheel sizes/trim. Unlike Garrett, KKK seem reluctent to publish such info. Come on, who can get us that!
    Interestingly the K24 turbine housing I have has a part no beginning with 5326. I think that adds weight to the theory of commonality.
    Basically you are looking at a bigger comp wheel for the K24 right? Retaining the advantages of the smaller hot side. I fear that by the time all the mods are applied to a rebuild, the cost isn't going to be far off the RS2 option.

    Comment

    • S2central.net
      Retired OG Mod
      • Jul 2003
      • 16590
      • Country: Northern Ireland

      #17
      Yes I want the same old K24 hotside (turbine) and a larger coldside (compressor).

      Fair point on housing numbers - they are useless if previously machined, but on the Nothelle turbo it might point to an alternate source of a turbo - maybe a K26 housing of Porsche heritage. And yes its a right PITA that KKK don't publicise the info. I'll be willing to bet that Garrett sell more products because they openly provide technical details that allow people like us to make informed decisions.

      Even if we have to machine the original compressor housing to take a shiny new RS2 compressor wheel - along with a common bearing and shaft that can match up with the hot side - it must work out cheaper than the full blown RS2 route because the stock manifold is retained along with camshafts injectors and big end bearings for the 3B boys.

      Paul
      Paul Nugent
      Webmaster http://S2central.net
      Administrator http://S2forum.com

      1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
      2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
      2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

      Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

      There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

      Comment

      • Mihnea
        S2Forum Extremist
        • Jul 2003
        • 1288
        • Home: Belgium Current: United Kingdom

        #18
        Paul, why don't you fit a 2.75"-3" exhaust from the turbo back, no cat along with an RS2 EM and an RS2 IC and stock K24 turbo? I've done a 100 S4 with this setup except for the IC and the damn car screamed with my standard boost values, I would say similar to a stock RS2 at the top end (290 to 300 HP) and much stronger than a stock RS2 in terms of low RPM torque. All these hybrid turbos turbos are ****e, BTDT, the only turbo that's worth the hassle is the RS2 (and its small brother with the small K26 hot side as used by MTM and Nothelle, if you're willing to sacrifice top end HP), and believe me, once you've driven it, you don't want anything else.

        I've also recently tuned a full RS2 conversion on a 7A coupe quattro in the US on race gas (RON 107) and it frickin kicked ***, 320 HP at the wheels and 385ft/lbs of torque at the wheels too. Insane, that car pulls like mad, it's really sick.


        Cheers,

        Mihnea
        Last edited by Mihnea; 29 July 2004, 12:32. Reason: me stoopid and jetlagged :D
        '98 Silver Grey 2.7T S4, dual 2.75" turbo back exhaust with no cats, FMIC, BIG injectors, 10 Bar motorsport fuel pump, modded RS4 turbos, tubular exhaust manifolds, custom intakes, RS4 MAF, Bilstein PSS9, H&R ARBs, 19" BBS CH, custom remap, 511 BHP/505ft-lbs

        www.MRCTuning.com
        info@MRCTuning.com
        Workshop Directions

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        • Jamo
          Retired OG Mod
          • Mar 2004
          • 21750
          • Country: United Kingdom

          #19
          Might as well go the RS2 turbo route from the start because the exhaust cost so much! lol

          Mihnea, do you know what the spec / model number the Turbos in the MTM / Nothelle are?

          I was behind Eric's Nothelle and it left me for dead from on a stock K24 from rolling start.

          Comment

          • S2central.net
            Retired OG Mod
            • Jul 2003
            • 16590
            • Country: Northern Ireland

            #20
            @MIhnea - I know we talked about that ages ago - truth is I haven't had the money of the time to dyno each of these bolt on parts.

            I need to get a new baseline run on the current chips on mine, possibly get them even leaner and closer to knock limit than the generic setup, then see what a decent exhaust can add, then the RS2 intercooler, then a cold-air filter (if any gain is visible on the rollers), and finally the 'evacusump' - all done with chipped stock K24. I wouldn't imagine the RS2 manifold will make any significant gain on the K24 - as I know it can allow 330bhp if an RS2 turbo is bolted on.

            I'll probably go with a Sports CAT cos I like to be legal and green when I can - and I can't be arsed pulling a CAT off and on every year for the MOT - plus I don't know anyone who could bend the rules for me anyway.

            Maybe the combination of RS2 intercooler and sports exhaust will give me the extra 20bhp I need to break the magical 300 barrier without sacrificing all that lovely torque from 2500rpm

            I agree the ordinary K26 is a useless turbo for this after seeing the maps. The RS2 is definitely the right choice for 330-380bhp territory depending on what else is fitted.


            Paul
            Paul Nugent
            Webmaster http://S2central.net
            Administrator http://S2forum.com

            1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
            2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
            2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

            Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

            There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

            Comment

            • Josh-stateside
              S2Forum Maniac
              • Jul 2003
              • 741
              • Country: United States

              #21
              I plan on sourcing a Rs2 chra. I was quoted $750 for one with a 6-8 week wait. In the begining I am thinking of putting on the k24 housings (machined to work if necessary) and having some fun with the either the chipped 280hp setup or the stock rs2 ecu. Later down the road if I get gready:


              I can source a #6 or #8 hot side housing from a porsche 944 turbo. I am not sure about the cold side housing though, maybe a old audi k26 housing, or the 944 housing, maybe even bite the bullet and source a RS2 cold side housing, maybe go larger to 7200 "competition" size. Seemingly this is my plan and seemingly I will have a lot of options as long as the turbo companies are up to par with sourcing a rs2 chra.

              Cheers
              Josh
              I chose not to choose life: I chose something else. And the reasons? There are no reasons. Who need reasons when you've got quattro?

              Comment

              • williams
                S2Forum Hobbyist
                • Jun 2004
                • 16

                #22
                Hi,
                Has anybody experimented any further with the idea of a hybrid k24. I am looking for 320 - 340hp for my 3b and like the sound of the hybrid. My car has a home fry, RS2 IC, 3" turbo back with no cats and a Dahlback induction. It pulls really well now all the boost leaks are fixed(fingers crossed) but I am looking to leave these P1s and like standing instead of them nipping at my heals all the time. A hybrid would be a cheaper option otherwise could a RS2 turbo be fitted without any other upgrades?

                Cheers

                Alun.

                Comment

                • WabTheKing
                  S2Forum Fiend
                  • May 2004
                  • 2567
                  • Country: United Kingdom

                  #23
                  link

                  is this the same as an rs2 basicly or better or worse? i like the pokey bottom end of the k24

                  Comment

                  • Audi Parts Guru
                    S2Forum Extremist
                    • Jul 2003
                    • 1317
                    • Home: England Current: United Kingdom

                    #24
                    For everyones info, there are 24 different K24 compressors wheels currently in production with KKK, two of which are made of Titanium.

                    And for the K26 range, well there are currently 20 different compressor wheels in production in that range.

                    The K27 range has 60 yes 60 different compressor wheels in it's range

                    Oh the joys of Turbo charger science
                    S2 Avant......fully loaded :rock: :bow: Slipper Wagons Rule !!!!!

                    Comment

                    • williams
                      S2Forum Hobbyist
                      • Jun 2004
                      • 16

                      #25
                      I have contacted the Turbo Centre Uk Ltd about the possibilities of a K24 hybrid capable of 330-340 hp. The company was recommended by a friend of mine has anyone had dealings with this company before? They will get back to me tommorow with the spec and price of the upgrade. I am looking for a cheap alternative for the RS2 turbo and would like to utilise my current k24.

                      Will keep you posted

                      Alun.

                      Comment

                      • Jonas_R
                        S2Forum Possessed
                        • Jan 2004
                        • 3780
                        • Country: Denmark

                        #26
                        Dont know if this helps, but Hohenester use a hybrid turbo and a RS manifold for there 310 hk kit. Got this kit on and everything else is stock besides turbo and manifold which are hybrids.

                        Should get it meassures sometime in end march / start april to see if the HP is true or false. Just bought the car with the kit.

                        /Jonas R.
                        Sleeper S2 Avant +450

                        A6 Avant 2.7t Stage 3

                        Audi S2 Coupe RS2'ed

                        Comment

                        • Bibby
                          S2Forum Extremist
                          • Aug 2004
                          • 1043
                          • Country: England

                          #27
                          I use the MTM hybrid. Let me know if you want any numbers off it, I'll try and have a look.

                          It's far from $hite.
                          acidtrax

                          Comment

                          • williams
                            S2Forum Hobbyist
                            • Jun 2004
                            • 16

                            #28
                            Karlos,

                            what power does the MTM hybrid turbo give?

                            Alun.

                            Comment

                            • Bibby
                              S2Forum Extremist
                              • Aug 2004
                              • 1043
                              • Country: England

                              #29
                              Alun... No idea at the moment as I haven't had it on a rolling road yet. It's been estimated between 315bhp & 330bhp, can't say on the torque figures. I have it on good authority that "it would show an RS2 a clean set of heels".

                              I'm in South Wales if you want to meet up some weekend, have a look for yourself.
                              acidtrax

                              Comment

                              • ericd
                                S2Forum Extremist
                                • Nov 2003
                                • 1240
                                • Country: Scotland

                                #30
                                From memory the Nothelle & MTM 'small hybrid' are the same beast (I'm sure Mihnea or others can clarify this point ), rough figures were 315 bhp @ 5800 rpm / 333 ib ft @ 2500 rpm.

                                Paul, I'll try and get the p/no's from mine , but last time I had it out it looked as if it'd been scrubbed of any numbers, I also know that it had a 270 degree crank , cause I changed to a 360.

                                HTH

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