Power loss, poor hot starting & info on wastegate

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • 20Vcqdriver
    S2Forum Maniac
    • Jun 2007
    • 829
    • Country: United Kingdom

    #1

    Power loss, poor hot starting & info on wastegate

    CAr ran brilliantly from April to July but performance dropped off since then and put down to hotter weather but coming in today in cool conditions expecting it to fly and it feels as though it's holding back, it goes to take off in 3rd 4th upwards and then feels to back off a bit. It has also starting playing up when hot and takes a lot of starting if you have stopped to refuel etc. Also want to know if there is any benefit on a 3B of winding down the wastegate spring. Thanks. Comes off the road on SORN end September so 6 months to get it sorted. Any ideas
    1986 Coupe q - 2281cc 3B, chargecooler, 2.75" exh & downpipe, ported head, water injection, CGR box, modified MD357 turbo, 440cc injectors, high power coil.
    2004 A4 2.5TDi convertible, re-mapped to 180bhp
    2011 A5 sportback 3TDi-Backbox delete, remap
  • max_s2
    S2Forum Addict
    • Mar 2006
    • 498
    • Country: Latvia

    #2
    Hi.
    Could be coolant temp sensor, MAF, maybe a leak. First of all, connect ECU to a VAGCOM and check whats going on in there, maybe you'll find out smth.

    Comment

    • S2central.net
      Retired OG Mod
      • Jul 2003
      • 16590
      • Country: Northern Ireland

      #3
      Agreed with above - something is out of kilter if it ran so sweetly at first. Codes might not tell you anything though so don't ever trust them 100%. Would be worth swapping MAF with someone else - that is a common cause of all sorts of ills. But a faulty temp sensor could also make the ECU thing the car is too hot and so retard timing and such as result - hence the 'holding back' feeling - and make it run too rich also.

      You are running 3B FPR aren't you at 3bar with 3B injectors ?

      Other possibility is that the ECU has been detecting knock - perhaps falsely. A good way to check for that is to unplug the ECU for a minute or so. This resets it and forces it to start adaptation from scratch... If all performance has returned then that may be something to investigate further.

      See if you can get a resistance test across the 2-pins of the air temp sensor (top of inlet manifold) and the coolant temp sensor (tricky at rear if head without a JPT extension plug). Do that with a warm engine (90 degrees) and we can see if the values are broadly correct.
      Paul Nugent
      Webmaster http://S2central.net
      Administrator http://S2forum.com

      1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
      2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
      2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

      Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

      There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

      Comment

      • 20Vcqdriver
        S2Forum Maniac
        • Jun 2007
        • 829
        • Country: United Kingdom

        #4
        Originally posted by S2central.net
        Agreed with above - something is out of kilter if it ran so sweetly at first. Codes might not tell you anything though so don't ever trust them 100%. Would be worth swapping MAF with someone else - that is a common cause of all sorts of ills. But a faulty temp sensor could also make the ECU thing the car is too hot and so retard timing and such as result - hence the 'holding back' feeling - and make it run too rich also.

        You are running 3B FPR aren't you at 3bar with 3B injectors ?

        Other possibility is that the ECU has been detecting knock - perhaps falsely. A good way to check for that is to unplug the ECU for a minute or so. This resets it and forces it to start adaptation from scratch... If all performance has returned then that may be something to investigate further.

        See if you can get a resistance test across the 2-pins of the air temp sensor (top of inlet manifold) and the coolant temp sensor (tricky at rear if head without a JPT extension plug). Do that with a warm engine (90 degrees) and we can see if the values are broadly correct.
        I have a spare MAF. But will disconnect ECU first and see what happens. Will measure sensor values when I get home tonight. One other item is that on starting from cold it starts instantly but after about a minute or 2 it starts to stutter as though missing a cylinder or two then recovers, revs rise to 1100 and then settles to normal and is fine from then on (only noticeable when left idling from cold), I'm suspecting the Lambda sensor, anyone agree?
        Yes, running standard 3B FPR and injectors. Still boosts to 1.3bar on calibrated gauge in Sport mode which it has always done despite being told it should reach 1.4bar
        Last edited by 20Vcqdriver; 21 September 2010, 11:01.
        1986 Coupe q - 2281cc 3B, chargecooler, 2.75" exh & downpipe, ported head, water injection, CGR box, modified MD357 turbo, 440cc injectors, high power coil.
        2004 A4 2.5TDi convertible, re-mapped to 180bhp
        2011 A5 sportback 3TDi-Backbox delete, remap

        Comment

        • 20vQC
          S2Forum Maniac
          • Aug 2007
          • 684
          • Current: Italy

          #5
          the lambda could be another reason if MAF and MAT are fine... Paul correct me if I am wrong whit ths, but the lambda when dies, the ECU protects you adding more fuel to avoid damages...oh and fuel consumption may be a lot higher! cheers!!
          - Looking for a S2
          - Lancia Dedra HF turbo i.e. (4sale)
          - Typ89 Coupè quattro, 20Vt AAN, VEMS, K24-7000@1.3bar (scrapped )

          sigpic

          Comment

          • S2central.net
            Retired OG Mod
            • Jul 2003
            • 16590
            • Country: Northern Ireland

            #6
            Yes lambda could be bad also... you should see mixture fault on ECU if it cannot adapt its way out of trouble...
            Paul Nugent
            Webmaster http://S2central.net
            Administrator http://S2forum.com

            1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
            2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
            2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

            Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

            There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

            Comment

            • 20Vcqdriver
              S2Forum Maniac
              • Jun 2007
              • 829
              • Country: United Kingdom

              #7
              ok, got some readings.
              Inlet air temp..
              Cold = 427ohms (20deg outside temp)
              Hot straight after raz home = 437ohms
              reading after engine turned off for 5 mins = 476ohms.

              Water temp.
              Cold = 1852ohms
              hot = 250ohms (taken after engine off for 5 mins and several burns )

              What effect does turning wastgate screw have as seemed to run better on way home after unscrewing 2 full turns, or could just be my imagination
              1986 Coupe q - 2281cc 3B, chargecooler, 2.75" exh & downpipe, ported head, water injection, CGR box, modified MD357 turbo, 440cc injectors, high power coil.
              2004 A4 2.5TDi convertible, re-mapped to 180bhp
              2011 A5 sportback 3TDi-Backbox delete, remap

              Comment

              • newsh
                S2Forum Obsessed
                • Aug 2003
                • 16226
                • Country: United Kingdom

                #8
                Oxidation build up on MAF connector? Give it a wiggle and let us know.

                S2 Coupe 3B Project


                Ur quattro restoration

                S2 Avant

                Boost is the new rock and roll!
                sigpic

                Comment

                • S2central.net
                  Retired OG Mod
                  • Jul 2003
                  • 16590
                  • Country: Northern Ireland

                  #9
                  Gotta say the air temp readings don't sound right - look at the graph here - http://www.s2central.net/ds_G42.html

                  Your readings are always telling the engine it is very cold - and therefore runs too rich.

                  For example at 20 degrees ambient you should be seeing something like 480-490 ohms... Dunno how deadly accurate that graph is, but I will take a reading or two as well on my motor... same sensor on ABY as 3B.

                  Your water temp values look good though - http://www.s2central.net/ds_G62.html
                  Paul Nugent
                  Webmaster http://S2central.net
                  Administrator http://S2forum.com

                  1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
                  2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
                  2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

                  Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

                  There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

                  Comment

                  • S2central.net
                    Retired OG Mod
                    • Jul 2003
                    • 16590
                    • Country: Northern Ireland

                    #10
                    To save you spending money swapping sensor just on this info - unplug it and wire in a variable resistor if you can - or just use a fixed 470ohm component. I can post you one if you want to try it.
                    Paul Nugent
                    Webmaster http://S2central.net
                    Administrator http://S2forum.com

                    1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
                    2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
                    2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

                    Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

                    There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

                    Comment

                    • 20Vcqdriver
                      S2Forum Maniac
                      • Jun 2007
                      • 829
                      • Country: United Kingdom

                      #11
                      Thanks for info Paul, I have a complete set of resistors at work and taking car in tomorrow so will install a 470ohm and see what effect it has or Oops, Just read your post again, how about using a 47ohm in series to see what effect it has.
                      Last edited by 20Vcqdriver; 21 September 2010, 22:58.
                      1986 Coupe q - 2281cc 3B, chargecooler, 2.75" exh & downpipe, ported head, water injection, CGR box, modified MD357 turbo, 440cc injectors, high power coil.
                      2004 A4 2.5TDi convertible, re-mapped to 180bhp
                      2011 A5 sportback 3TDi-Backbox delete, remap

                      Comment

                      • S2central.net
                        Retired OG Mod
                        • Jul 2003
                        • 16590
                        • Country: Northern Ireland

                        #12
                        either way works
                        Paul Nugent
                        Webmaster http://S2central.net
                        Administrator http://S2forum.com

                        1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
                        2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
                        2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

                        Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

                        There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

                        Comment

                        • 20Vcqdriver
                          S2Forum Maniac
                          • Jun 2007
                          • 829
                          • Country: United Kingdom

                          #13
                          Interesting development, I tested the sensor originally with the wires attached as they are soldered on as standard on the 3B, so during the planned install of the resistor I measured the IAT with the wires off and got a value of 519ohms, if anything slightly higher than I would expect looking at Paul's/ SJM graph. So fitted spade connectors to replace soldered versions and left as is for now.... Got a spare Lambda at home so try that tonight too.
                          1986 Coupe q - 2281cc 3B, chargecooler, 2.75" exh & downpipe, ported head, water injection, CGR box, modified MD357 turbo, 440cc injectors, high power coil.
                          2004 A4 2.5TDi convertible, re-mapped to 180bhp
                          2011 A5 sportback 3TDi-Backbox delete, remap

                          Comment

                          • S2central.net
                            Retired OG Mod
                            • Jul 2003
                            • 16590
                            • Country: Northern Ireland

                            #14
                            That's just odd.
                            Paul Nugent
                            Webmaster http://S2central.net
                            Administrator http://S2forum.com

                            1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
                            2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
                            2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

                            Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

                            There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

                            Comment

                            • 20Vcqdriver
                              S2Forum Maniac
                              • Jun 2007
                              • 829
                              • Country: United Kingdom

                              #15
                              Originally posted by S2central.net
                              That's just odd.
                              It does say in your attached sheet on the IAT that values should be taken with wiring disconnected, there must be a lowish resistance in the Ecu internal circuit associated with this sensor.
                              Lambda and MAF in that order are next...
                              1986 Coupe q - 2281cc 3B, chargecooler, 2.75" exh & downpipe, ported head, water injection, CGR box, modified MD357 turbo, 440cc injectors, high power coil.
                              2004 A4 2.5TDi convertible, re-mapped to 180bhp
                              2011 A5 sportback 3TDi-Backbox delete, remap

                              Comment

                              Working...