Scarey Engine Build Estimate

[S2central.net]

I had a few hours to kill last night and started a rather depressing spreadsheet to estimate the costs of building a monster I5 turbo engine. The exotic items on the list were a GT30R turbo, custom manifolds, intercooler, pistons, rods and a MOTEC ECU conversion for good measure (to remove the MAF and get an expensive but elegant programming environment).

The total came to a shade under £10,000 including VAT.

Now OK - I guesstimated some worst case costs which you might reduce by sourcing one or two re-usable engines, but the custom bits and all the obligatory new bolts, gaskets, seals and so on really mount up along with machining costs along the way.

That's just an engine build - never mind big brakes, a roll cage, coilover suspension, special clutch and transmission.

National Lottery anyone ?




Paul

[Jeffer]

That price sounds about right to me.
I do not dare to take all my bills and make a total sum of the costs, I'll probably have a heartattack on the spot

But when driving that monster you totally forget about it

[newsh]

Paul, how are we supposed to stay in denial if you bring up this kind of stuff

[S2central.net]

Paul, how are we supposed to stay in denial if you bring up this kind of stuff

I know, I know - its terrifying - I do wonder who I think I'm kidding sometimes... The torque and power frenzy created by this forum drives you nuts. Think I'll have to get out more... in the garage that is


Paul

[Doug_RS2]

Can you post the spreadsheet so I can see how much I have spent compared to that?

[S2 Ant]

Doug, are u sure u really wanna know.... i should think you've spent enough to buy a small country!!

[Mihnea]

Paul, a GT30R is a poor choice for a monster engine IMHO, been working on compressor maps recently and the GT40R really sounds sweet for 500+ HP... dangit, with a properly ported head (I'll get one that lets the engine flow about 57lb/min with the right cams on it for my next project BTW) you can get close to 600 HP...

Mihnea tuning in France

[S2central.net]

Yeah - depends on how big you want your monster to be and how much lag and low down grunt you want to suffer along the way.

I think the GT30R is the superior choice for a 420-450bhp spec that has good driveability in low - mid range. Agree that the GT40R has superb scope for 500bhp and beyond - subject to expensive head work and pointy camshafts. I'd really like to know how that setup behaves off boost as I reckon you would need reduced compression ratio (and maybe special fuel ?) to run at ~600bhp - this will further detract from performance at part throttle and off-boost. If it spools incredibly quickly then lag might not be soooooh bad, but I just feel that the GT30R is as big as you would go with a nice tractable road car having a wider torque output than the relatively peaky GT40R. I think its fair to say the GT40R is better suited to larger capacity engines or in race applications for the S2. Just my opinion, but its been a while since I really studied the GT40R maps...

Tis all about the eternal balance of compromise in this department. No need to tell you that of course ;-)

Out of interest - have you had a chance to play with a MoTEC system yet ?

Paul

[sal_s2]

Any idea how the gt35 compares? What sort of power and low down torque?

[Doug_RS2]

Recent conversations with Mihnea has made me want a GT40R.

A comparison between the GT30R,35R and 40R with different trims would be good?

[caterpillar]

what cams are good for 5-600hp......??? not the 7a,i think?

[auditude]

And my question, what turbo, compression ratio, and cams should I run with this combo (collected from various feedback from others, and my best idea of what I'll be running, eventually):

2.5l Eurovan block and crank, oil squirters added
3B head
ARP head studs for a 3.5l BMW
custom pistons (same pin height and diameter as 3B?)
custom rods (longer than 3B, and rifle drilled)
RS Tuning tubular EM, w/Garrett flange
Wagner Tuning IM

I keep reading that 500hp/500ftlb Dialynx 2.5l stroker article, and I'd like my power curve to look like that one.

I wonder if the pistons would be the same as I would run if it wasn't a stroker, and just the rods would be longer.

Prior to sourcing a 2.5l bottom end, I was thinking I'd go with the GT30R, but with the larger displacement maybe a different turbo is warranted?

I wanted to ask this question of Mihnea when he had the chance to answer it, but I also welcome anyone elses feedback as well.

Thanks,

Ken

p.s. As far as the spreadsheet with the total cost, I think mine has already gone and is headed to more than I thought I would spend. However, I'm piecing it together over a long time to spread out the cost. It takes me that long to decide which way to go, which turns out to be a good thing because I keep coming across new opportunities, like this bottom end (which I'm glad I found before getting the rods).

[A1QSHIP]

Paradime Shift

I had a few hours to kill last night and started a rather depressing spreadsheet to estimate the costs of building a monster I5 turbo engine. The exotic items on the list were a GT30R turbo, custom manifolds, intercooler, pistons, rods and a MOTEC ECU conversion for good measure (to remove the MAF and get an expensive but elegant programming environment).

The total came to a shade under £10,000 including VAT.

Now OK - I guesstimated some worst case costs which you might reduce by sourcing one or two re-usable engines, but the custom bits and all the obligatory new bolts, gaskets, seals and so on really mount up along with machining costs along the way.

That's just an engine build - never mind big brakes, a roll cage, coilover suspension, special clutch and transmission.

National Lottery anyone ?




Paul

Here is another way of looking at this situation. First off, how much would it cost to purchase a new vehicle to replace your s2,RS2,20v? Which new vehicles have the same performance values as your present ride? Three vehicles come immediately to mind, the Subaru WRX STi, the MItsubishi Evo & the RS32 from VW. All which have less than 500 hp. Here in the States, these three vehicles range in price from 25k to just over 30k depending on region & options. Then you have to modify them to get the power that the Audi is capable of. If you consider the monthly car payment, the difference in insurance cost & taxes, you can have a tidy sum of cash to spend on your passion.
Next, think of the possibilities at home. Sure honey, I'll watch the kids!
"Today children, we are going to learn car care! We will start with the proper way to wash alloy wheels". Give a child a bucket of sudsy water, stand back & watch them have fun.

[NoNonsense]

Here is another way of looking at this situation. First off, how much would it cost to purchase a new vehicle to replace your s2,RS2,20v? Which new vehicles have the same performance values as your present ride? Three vehicles come immediately to mind, the Subaru WRX STi, the MItsubishi Evo & the RS32 from VW. All which have less than 500 hp. Here in the States, these three vehicles range in price from 25k to just over 30k depending on region & options. Then you have to modify them to get the power that the Audi is capable of. If you consider the monthly car payment, the difference in insurance cost & taxes, you can have a tidy sum of cash to spend on your passion.
Next, think of the possibilities at home. Sure honey, I'll watch the kids!
"Today children, we are going to learn car care! We will start with the proper way to wash alloy wheels". Give a child a bucket of sudsy water, stand back & watch them have fun.

I agree completely. I am going to have a car that I feel looks better than anything out there, more unique and not as common as all the A4s and S4s out there, and finally, i'll be able to roll up to someone in the 4.2L S4 and say "EAT MY DUST" and know for sure that I can smoke them like a cheap cigar! I don't have kids, but I have a younger sister, and she just got her first car, but she sure learned how to clean wheels, wax paint, clean leather, and steam an engine clean from me!

[olsonjus]

Funny how times and opinions change Mihnea.

Paul, a GT30R is a poor choice for a monster engine IMHO, been working on compressor maps recently and the GT40R really sounds sweet for 500+ HP... dangit, with a properly ported head (I'll get one that lets the engine flow about 57lb/min with the right cams on it for my next project BTW) you can get close to 600 HP...

Mihnea tuning in France