Introductions, 20vt BTDT

[S2central.net]

Yes, whp means "Wheel Horsepower", on the dyno I tune on a 25% correction figure is commonly accepted, 20% to be conservative. So you could say I'm pushing about 450 crank HP right now. All my testing is at sealevel, no SAE correction figures.

Javad - that is a relief - I thought you were claiming 450bhp at the roadwheels and was figuring you either had some seriously new tricks up your sleeve or you had runs on a silly set of rollers !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Your numbers are consistent with the big boys on here.

Gotta admit there is something very tempting at the thoughts of an I5 engine that can rev to 9 or 10k rpm. That would put a GT40R into jeapordy !

Seriously though - with a realisable limit of 8000-8500rpm on solid lifters it makes for some interesting thoughts about the power curve running with something like a GT40R.

Paul

[S2-racer]

boys and their toys, hee hee!!

best get my car sorted, so i can start thinking of more power.
got a few mounts and things to get sorted, then look out bank balance.

where abouts in cali are ya javad?? gonna be in san jose in november, maybe some of the boys would like some toys brought back, lol!

[JSHADZI]

boys and their toys, hee hee!!

best get my car sorted, so i can start thinking of more power.
got a few mounts and things to get sorted, then look out bank balance.

where abouts in cali are ya javad?? gonna be in san jose in november, maybe some of the boys would like some toys brought back, lol!

Hello, yes, I'd love to have you, come out to the shop and we'll do some 4-wheel burnouts

Our shop is located in Fremont, about 10 min N. of San Jose, definitely say hi.

[sal_s2]

Javad, have you had any experience with a gt35r turbo? Anyone in the states fitted one?

[audiman]

Javad, could you give any advise on how to wire up a multi coil system like that?? Using the original dizzy to trigger each coil at the right time?? I would like to stick with the Motronic ECU system for now.

[JSHADZI]

Javad, have you had any experience with a gt35r turbo? Anyone in the states fitted one?

Not yet with a 20v I5, I'm eyeing that turbo for my motor next, I may test with it soon. I believe it will be a good compromise between the 30R and the 40 in a high flow 20v such as mine. I think it would be too much for an unmodified, stock cammed motor. The 30R would be much more appropriate for that.

FWIW, it is similar in size and spec the the Garrett 60-1, but with the more efficient compressor and dual ball bearing center section (obviously).

[JSHADZI]

Javad, could you give any advise on how to wire up a multi coil system like that?? Using the original dizzy to trigger each coil at the right time?? I would like to stick with the Motronic ECU system for now.

I'm not sure how that could easily or effectively be accomplished. You could replace the distributor with a mechanical assembly where low amperage coil trigger signals could be sent to each coil - there would be required some sort of mechanical contact for each cylinder, distributed by the center of the rotor assy, distributing the coil trigger output of the ECU to individual coils. This could also possibly be accomplished electronically, but I'm not aware of anything that exists to do that.

IMO, all this would really get you is improved coil performance, less chance of saturation from firing one coil so many times at higher RPM. IME, the factory single distributor coil has trouble firing above 350 crank HP and 5krpm - the coil is pushed to its limits to fire such a compressed combustion chamber.

I'm not sure if all the work would be worth it. The real advantages of a direct fire, coil per cylinder setup, in addition to the above stated dwell advantages, is increased accuracy (from the ECU's calculated timing output) and increased spark power. Adding in the advantages of a standalone like the 034 Stage IIc, you also get cylinder-to-cylinder ignition trim, full programability, and the ability to use virtually any coil on the market (IOW, as big as you like )

I suppose it depends what you're looking to do, at the minimum it seems like upgrading to the AAN ECU and harness would be a way to do it and keep Motronic.

HTH,

[Mihnea]

Javad, BTDT over 350 crank HP with a single coil setup (3B engines), audiman's is one of them, and the other one is Koko who is from CA and who dynoed 325 ATW on Shiv's dyno with a complete 3B ignition system....


Cheers,

Mihnea

[JSHADZI]

Javad, BTDT over 350 crank HP with a single coil setup (3B engines), audiman's is one of them, and the other one is Koko who is from CA and who dynoed 325 ATW on Shiv's dyno with a complete 3B ignition system....


Cheers,

Mihnea

Sure, I believe it (well, I was there for Koko's car). I'm not saying it won't fire over 350 crank, but, IME, I've seen problems with coil saturation above these levels, depending on different factors. Remember, I'm not about setting hard limits on power, as we've discussed before I should qualify as well, that much of my experience with that coil, driving a distributor, was with the 10v - which at similar boost levels has considerably less HP than the 20v.

[Mihnea]

Lol Javad, I know for the hard limits on power
I guess we might have been surprised if we had measured the coil saturation on Koko's car but I have no clue how to do this

Audiman's car is really running fine with 19 psi at the redline and 26 at 5k so I think the coil is plenty fine and doing its job very well...

Now of course, I do prefer coil per plug setups (ABY/AAN/ADU ECU's), they're much easier and much more comprehensive for tuning purposes...


Cheers,

Mihnea, off to Holland to tune TDIs

[diesel des]

Not yet with a 20v I5, I'm eyeing that turbo for my motor next, I may test with it soon. I believe it will be a good compromise between the 30R and the 40 in a high flow 20v such as mine. I think it would be too much for an unmodified, stock cammed motor. The 30R would be much more appropriate for that.

FWIW, it is similar in size and spec the the Garrett 60-1, but with the more efficient compressor and dual ball bearing center section (obviously).

Hi. I am interested in seeing some power graphs of cars with the GT30R turbo. I have one, a Aby, and a urq, but none are screwed togeter yet. Just wondering what i could expect. Thanks!

[audiman]

Cheers Mik Also no misfires at 3.8krpm when i get 31psi

How could i test coil saturation then?? Would be interested in seeing what is going on.

[S2central.net]

Hi. I am interested in seeing some power graphs of cars with the GT30R turbo. I have one, a Aby, and a urq, but none are screwed togeter yet. Just wondering what i could expect. Thanks!

Des - I'll show you one on paper if you like... Based on my calculations - in short its capable of 500Nm at 5000rpm dropping to 470Nm at the redline where it is generating 500bhp. None to shabby. Assumes an intercooler man enough to get IAT down to 40 celsius with 20 ambient.

Gimme a day or so to produce the graphs and explain any assumptions and calculations along the way.

There's a healthy debate on this topic in the 'Scarey Engine Build' thread...


Paul

[diesel des]

Des - I'll show you one on paper if you like... Based on my calculations - in short its capable of 500Nm at 5000rpm dropping to 470Nm at the redline where it is generating 500bhp. None to shabby. Assumes an intercooler man enough to get IAT down to 40 celsius with 20 ambient.

Gimme a day or so to produce the graphs and explain any assumptions and calculations along the way.

There's a healthy debate on this topic in the 'Scarey Engine Build' thread...


Paul

Thanks paul. I did some calcs a while ago too before i bought it, and ploted an approx engine swallowing curve on the compressor map. It does look good for a mid 400BHP (Flywheel) road car, 500 at a push. The GT40R is way to big for me.

I will put the GT30R on the stock aby, with the rs tunning manifold i recieved last week. Looks good. I will just shim the head to reduce CR a little and aim for a mid 400BHP max. I cant afford to build a monster just now, but if i did it would be a tdi blocked beast.

[Greg_S]

Des, have you any details on the RS tuning manifold?

Greg