AAN Engine transplant into VW T3 Transporter

[porkkis]

Those are stock 4th gear. Currently 3+4 are upgrades from weddle industries. Stronger 1+2 are sadly not available for the syncro. I'm pretty confident that granny+reverse will not break.

[RS2]

Ahah, they will be Albins gears, sold by Weddle. Very strong.

I have been running 275 ftlbs with stock G, R, 1st and 2nd gears and not broken one. Only the pinion bearing, pinion head, mainshaft support housing and R&G synchro cluster have been my failures.

MG

[porkkis]

I have broken (actually friend of mine, the car is group owned) one 2nd gear too. Torque is pretty much in the same ball park with yours.

[RS2]

Well I've had a fairly frustrating morning of cranking the engine over without any hint of it wanting to fire.

I managed to get Vag-com talking to both Immobiliser and Engine ECU. After managing to program in a key to the immob ECU (good old Vagtacho) and checking that the Engine ECU was accepting it, I have been getting an Engine Speed Sensor error. I've seen this before on other engines when the engine has failed to start, even though there isn't anything wrong with the speed sensor. That said, I haven't check the sensor resistance so that's next. Having checked with Ross-tech, the 'Notes' section states what I've seen before. http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/00513

My AAN engine is from an Auto and I'm wondering if there the connector has to be connected in some way to tell the engine ECU that the gearbox is in park? Or would that block just stop the engine from cranking at all? I'm not using the stock Ign switch, just bypassing everything and doing it manually.

I went through the Pin list and checked that everything that should have a permanent/switched feed had one and that all earths had good continuity.

One thing that is a problem is that I have an outside air temp sensor fault. That fault would probably be that I don't have one! As a result, Measuring blocks within Vag-com are registering -49oC. I wouldn't have thought that this would stop the engine from firing but ... who knows!

Any ideas folks?

MG

[spink]

think you have found your problem there Mike,have a look here half way down the page

http://www.audifans.net/ftopict-35357.html

[UrS4boy]

Well I've had a fairly frustrating morning of cranking the engine over without any hint of it wanting to fire...My AAN engine is from an Auto and I'm wondering if there the connector has to be connected in some way to tell the engine ECU that the gearbox is in park? Or would that block just stop the engine from cranking at all? I'm not using the stock Ign switch, just bypassing everything and doing it manually.

I went through the Pin list and checked that everything that should have a permanent/switched feed had one and that all earths had good continuity.

One thing that is a problem is that I have an outside air temp sensor fault. That fault would probably be that I don't have one! As a result, Measuring blocks within Vag-com are registering -49oC. I wouldn't have thought that this would stop the engine from firing but ... who knows! Any ideas folks? MG

Here is a link to the AAN T55 pin-out to check against what you have been using:

http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4s6/msgs/21009.phtml

I am not sure how you have the fuel pump wired. For the AAN, the fuel pump is powered through the fuel pump relay (FPR) and the FPR is only energized by the ECU once the ECU has received a signal from the engine speed sensor that the RPM is > 13, i.e. in an accident if the engine is stopped, the fuel pump is turned off - a safety feature. In your case, trying to start the engine "manually" might be bypassing the "proper channels", might be stopping this from happening.

Here is some engine speed sensor info:

http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4s6/msgs/20986.phtml

Here is some FP relay info:

http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4s6/msgs/22583.phtml

The above might solve the fuel pressure component of starting but that does not deal with spark and injection, the other part of the starting equation. Having the fuel rail pressurized and full of fuel does not mean that there is fuel getting to the cylinders. Both the injectors and the coils (via the Power Output Stages (POSs) are controlled by the ECU. The ECU will only engerize them if it has good signals from *both* the cam position sensor AND the crank position sensor. If one of those signals is missing, you will never start the engine. That said, if you are wired up properly, when you turn the ignition to ON, the coils should be energized with 12V. This does not mean that they will fire. The ECU controls the power to ground (creating the high tension spark) via the POS.

Here is some POS info:
http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4s6/msgs/15284.phtml and

http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4s6/msgs/153152.phtml

Crank position sensor info:

http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4s6/msgs/20986.phtml

Cam Position Sensor info:

http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4s6/msgs/22580.phtml

So to reiterate, you need good signals from the engine speed sensor, the cam position sensor and the crank position sensor, plus a properly wired fuel pump relay before your AAN will start. *EDIT: Not sure about the auto issue if you don't have a "204" relay in Position 4 in the central relay panel.* The immobilizer might be an issue. That I can't help you on, other than as far as I know, the immobilizer wants a good signal from the key in the immobilizer-equipped ignition switch before it is "all systems go".

[UrS4boy]

think you have found your problem there Mike,have a look here half way down the page http://www.audifans.net/ftopict-35357.html

Interesting. All of the NAmerican C4 UrS-cars came as standards. All of them have "204" relay (PN 141951253B) in the Starter Interlock Relay Position (relay position 4 (from left)):

http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4s6/msgs/152615.phtml

[RS2]

Thanks all for the replies. I have hard wired the fuel pump for the moment so that can be ruled out.

I don't have the relay board so need to find out which pin from the ECU goes to that relay/bridge goes to. Anyone?

MG

[UrS4boy]

Thanks all for the replies. I have hard wired the fuel pump for the moment so that can be ruled out. ...MG

I don't know if it can be ruled out or not. How are you supplying power to the S17, S72, S73 and S75 fuses that are powered through the AAN fuel pump relay:

[RS2]

Ahah, ok I'll check out a way of getting a feed to those fuses.

One thing which I haven't seen yet is a schematic inc the relay board. Having looked at the photo above of the jumper used on manual cars, I can just about see the pin numbers on the relay board that jumper gose to/from - the look like 17 and 19.. can anyone confirm? I'm expecting that one of them will go to ECU pin 51 or 54. I still don't have idea what it should be linked up to although I'm expecting an earth. It's times like this that I wish I had an original wiring diagram complete for the AAN. I'll keep hunting.

MG

[RS2]

Success! I think...



Right time to sort out what goes where...


MG

[RS2]

Well another frustating day spent getting closer but no cigar!

I've got a spark, I have a feed to the injectors and I have fuel at the injectors but the ECU isn't allowing them to fire. Just to check that everything else was ok, I earthed out each injector (which sprayed) and then managed to have the engine coughing and tickover for all of 1/2 second until the fuel ran out.

I've located the 2 wires from the ECU pin 51 and 54 which are in the Yellow connector plug. I forgot about pin 42 until now but even with the above diagram, I don't know what they're supposed to be connected to.

I have hard wired the feed to S17, S72, S73 and S75 so that lot's all happy and has power.

More research needed...

MG

[UrS4boy]

I've got a spark, I have a feed to the injectors and I have fuel at the injectors but the ECU isn't allowing them to fire. Just to check that everything else was ok, I earthed out each injector (which sprayed) and then managed to have the engine coughing and tickover for all of 1/2 second until the fuel ran out.

I've located the 2 wires from the ECU pin 51 and 54 which are in the Yellow connector plug. I forgot about pin 42 until now but even with the above diagram, I don't know what they're supposed to be connected to.

I have hard wired the feed to S17, S72, S73 and S75 so that lot's all happy and has power. More research needed... MG

ECU pins 42, 51 and 54 relate to the ECU talking to the Autotrans computer and therefore should not need to be hooked up.

http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4s6/msgs/21009.phtml

Your symptoms above sound like you do not have a good signal from the G4 crank position sensor, G28 engine speed sensor and G40 cam position (Hall) sensor (as I discussed above) because the computer does not seem to know where the cylinders are and therefore refuses to send the "go" signal to the injectors and/or coils.

That said, I am not clear as to how you know you have spark. How was this determined? If it was on turn over (on the starter) you are close to getting this thing started (just the ECU/injector control issue).

[porkkis]

If you have a G28 code after the engine has been cranked, it's there for a reason. Try to swap G4 and G28.

-49C temp is normal before the engine is running. It's a bit strange I have to admit, but it's still normal.

No signals are needed from TCU to get engine running.

[UrS4boy]

G4 crank position and G28 engine speed sender info

If you have a G28 code after the engine has been cranked, it's there for a reason. Try to swap G4 and G28.

Rather than swapping, first just confirm that they grey and black plugs are in the correct positions:





More info here:

http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4s6/msgs/20986.phtml