Rocket Fuel Calculations

[4WheelDrifter]

Have u got any specific combustion energy figures on a N2O4 / CH3NHNH2 mix?
It's a shame 2,4,6 trinitromethylbenzine is crystalline.
You could always blow it in.
How strong is a 3B block?

[Lee]

Not to hand. I will look it up in a couple of the rocket design manuals I have if you want. My final year degree thesis was in rocket engine design but most of the thermoschemistry has left me now as I haven't done it for so long.

Not sure you want to use Nictric Acid as an oxidiser in a reciprocating IC engine!! Just go full Biprop instead. LOL!

BTW: http://www.s2forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5661 for a selection of Millers prices from me.

[S2central.net]

According to tests:
Optimax 98.3RON, 86.9MON
Millers Octane Plus and Optimax 99.4RON, 87.5MON
CVL and Optimax 100.8RON, 89.2MON (nearly the equivalent of old 5Star)
I don't have the full MON figures for CVLTurbo but the RON goes to 101-102, plus in tests up to 4RON (40 Octane Points) on many grades of fuel.

I have some nice data sheets on RON and MON from Millers. I am sure it is also on their website and soon to be on mine.

As for prices, search threads for Millers in the ForSale section. I don't want to hijack this interesting thread on Toluene further but I have full prices there for single bottles as well as boxes. I discount retail!!

Lee - the paper I got from Millers site shows those figures alright, but completely fails to tell you how much additive is needed per quantity of Optimax to get those RON/MON values. I thought that most octane boosters were based on toluene anyway, but one tiny bottle (~250ml ?) will make very little difference to a tankful of petrol if my calculations are correct.

Any more info on that in terms of volumes required for the claimed improvement.

Paul

[S2central.net]

And here's the Excel I was doing yesterday with regards RON/MON calcs -

[Jamo]

Have u got any specific combustion energy figures on a N2O4 / CH3NHNH2 mix?
It's a shame 2,4,6 trinitromethylbenzine is crystalline.
You could always blow it in.
How strong is a 3B block?

Jesus H, what a mix

Takes me back to my chemistry years............

[S2central.net]

Jesus H, what a mix

Takes me back to my chemistry years............

yeah - I was using the term 'rocket fuel' as an attention grabber - not for anyone to remotely consider for real life !


Paul

[4WheelDrifter]

With those brakes and his rocket science , i think Lee might be considering it!!

[Lee]

Millers treatment levels:
-Octane plus comes in 250ml bottles and treats 50 litres (although treatment can be doubled)
-CVL comes in 250ml bottles and treats 20 litres (maximum!)
-CVL Turbo comes in 500ml bottles and treats 20 litres (maximum!)

Not had a chance to check out your excel file yet Paul. I'll have a butchers later.

[Lee]

With those brakes and his rocket science , i think Lee might be considering it!!

My mate has a PhD in liquid biprop rocket engine research and design. We have done the maths already as we were seriously (and I mean SERIOUSLY) calculating the engine size required to hit over 200mph at Bruntinthrope during the annual max speed runs event. We were both surprised how small the engine needed to be. Problems were oxidiser storage and where the hell to bolt a long hybrid engine on the outside of the car...we thought the roof rails would shear off as we approached the double ton. And I didn't fancy having the thing inside the trunk as I have seen these things blow up first hand!!

Then we got onto talk about rocket powered go-karts and things got out of hand so we decided to stop there before we went ahead and killed ourselves. Another friend has a pulse jet engined go-kart but he WILL kill himself soon! LOL!

[4WheelDrifter]

Just a thought.
Because of the density of Toluene relative to Petrol (mostly branched alkanes IIRC), would the tank need stirring to stop the Toluene settling in the bottom? If it did settle, the concentration could cause damage to any elastomers it was in contact with, ie. synthetic rubber hoses and seals.

[Mark Halligan]

Another friend has a pulse jet engined go-kart but he WILL kill himself soon! LOL!

LOL, Doodlebug go-kart crazy

[4WheelDrifter]

My mate has a PhD in liquid biprop rocket engine research and design. We have done the maths already as we were seriously (and I mean SERIOUSLY) calculating the engine size required to hit over 200mph at Bruntinthrope during the annual max speed runs event. We were both surprised how small the engine needed to be. Problems were oxidiser storage and where the hell to bolt a long hybrid engine on the outside of the car...we thought the roof rails would shear off as we approached the double ton.

I think the problem would be the rocket tearing off your roof bars and leaving you behind at the start.

[Lee]

We calculated that we needed much less than 0.5g to do it comfortably (I think it was only 0.2g sustained, from memory). Sustaining those accelerations at high speed meant a gradual increase in thrust along the run. The aerodynamic loads get pretty high at 200mph especially with another square foot frontage of a rocket engine on the roof!
That pulse jet engined go-kart is built around a turbocharger too. Absolute madness. They were chased off an airfield not too long ago for trespassing while trying to test the thing!

Thread hijack over. I am more interested in octane increases! I am hoping that a certain friend gets his multi-program ECU sorted so I can run on 95, 102 and maybe something even higher at the flick of a switch. Some of the RS246 guys take 107 Octane race fuel with them to trackdays. Not sure about price but no good for daily driving!

Would normal driving 'slosh' Toluene and Petrol around enough in the tank? If using Toluene would you have to make sure that you encountered a few speed humps on every journey??

Isn't Toluene used in paint stripper too?

[4WheelDrifter]

Yeah. Toluene (methylbenzine) is found in paint thinners such as cellulose thinners. So is xylene (dimethylbenzine). I learnt that the more complex the hydrocarbons, the better. Thinking back to my chemistry lecturer who enjoyed anything explosive. Does anyone know anything about 2-methoxy-2-methylpropane (MTBE)? Or maybe acetone.

[audiman]

I know that Toluene was banned in UK schools due to its high levels of carcegenics(?). I found that out when doing some research for my A level chemistry!! I too wanted to do a project on high octane fuels in my old Polo!!!