Aquamist HFS3 in my Audi S2

[Avantus]

On our 515hp trackday B5 S4 there is a devils own WM kit that's feeded with simple windscreen washer fluid. I was told that has around 6-8% meth.
No harm in it I presume? Would 50/50 be safer, or is there a massive torque increase that could harm the clutch?

[prj]

Rocco:

If you are going to run it now on your car - it is a bit rich already, so do not run more than 20-25% methanol or it will be crazy rich and not gain more power.

For 50/50 and more, especially with dual 1.0mm or 1.0mm and 0.9mm jets you need a retune.

[prj]

On our 515hp trackday B5 S4 there is a devils own WM kit that's feeded with simple windscreen washer fluid. I was told that has around 6-8% meth.
No harm in it I presume? Would 50/50 be safer, or is there a massive torque increase that could harm the clutch?

You need to map for it basically. And the devilsown kit will not be very good then, because if it is MAP triggered, it will flood the engine.

I installed an Aquamist HFS-3 on my RS4.
The controller is in the ECU compartment. I will make a pic of the finished install later today...

[Rocco]

Rocco:

If you are going to run it now on your car - it is a bit rich already, so do not run more than 20-25% methanol or it will be crazy rich and not gain more power.

For 50/50 and more, especially with dual 1.0mm or 1.0mm and 0.9mm jets you need a retune.

Yes I read about it...for now with 10/90 would be fine as cooler.

To gain more hp with aggressive timing then I need you here

[Henkjan]

Latent heat != cooling. Methanol cools the intake charge much better than water, due to the boiling point.

as long as all liquid vaporises, the boiling point has nothing to do with the amount of cooling caused by the vapourisation

Latent heats:

• water: 2260 kJ/kg
• methanol: 1155 kJ/kg

so, assuming all liquid vapourises, an equal amount (mass) of water withdraws approx double the amount of heat from the air, thus lowering the temperature twice as good.

[prj]

as long as all liquid vaporises, the boiling point has nothing to do with the amount of cooling caused by the vapourisation

Latent heats:

• water: 2260 kJ/kg
• methanol: 1155 kJ/kg

so, assuming all liquid vapourises, an equal amount (mass) of water withdraws approx double the amount of heat from the air, thus lowering the temperature twice as good.

As long as it all vaporizes yes, but it won't all vaporize until it hits the cylinder, so IAT's are lower on 100% meth.
Not to mention that it makes a lot more power due to increasing the octane rating more.

[Rocco]

As long as it all vaporizes yes, but it won't all vaporize until it hits the cylinder, so IAT's are lower on 100% meth.
Not to mention that it makes a lot more power due to increasing the octane rating more.

Dmitri, would you expect a 10% of more power if we retuned it with 75/25 with the same GT30? also would it hit full boost eariler?


now without mapping,we will test the AFR with the logs... but surely with 10/90 or 20/80 must be ok true? 5/95 it is too low?

[Henkjan]

.... but it won't all vaporize until it hits the cylinder, so IAT's are lower on 100% methanol

logical explanation. but in that case, it appears that too much water is injected, or is it also beneficial if it vapourises in the cylinder? lowering EGT maybe?

[prj]

logical explanation. but in that case, it appears that too much water is injected, or is it also beneficial if it vapourises in the cylinder? lowering EGT maybe?

It does cool the combustion, but too much water also retards the burn, so you need more timing advance to make even the same power.
And it does not increase octane rating as effectively as methanol.

[|Maku|]

Ive been discussing this matter with some guys. Some say that all it does, it helps to prevent heatsoak so car can run basically 10 identical runs in a row. Some say that water/methanol mix raises max potential of the engine. For example if turbine compressor is maxed out at 380 hp (max output of RS2 turbo), then with water/methanol mix You can extract + ca 76 hp out of it.

[Error404]

You will make more torque if the car is mapped for it as the effective higher octane rating means you can advance timing closer to MBT = more efficient conversion of the combustion into mechanical energy.

[PRY4SNO]

A couple years back I was linked by my brother to a WWII study of w/m injection in aircraft engines and the results of varied ratios. IIRC, they concluded 50:50 was the best, and, properly administered one could expect an octane spike equivalent to going from 80 octane to 100 octane. If I can dredge it up I'll post the link.

I plan on an HFS-4 in my build, but there is some good reading here:

http://www.snowperformance.net/category-s/168.htm