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  • Error404
    Super Moderator
    • Mar 2007
    • 19789
    • Country: United Kingdom

    #16
    you would certainly hear that though I'd have thought. IME when a timing belt goes, a loud bang is heard and felt a few milliseconds later. Then the car stops and the tears start.
    Panthero Coupé quattro 20vt
    Indigo ABY coupé
    Imola B6 S4 Avant

    Comment

    • audinut
      S2Forum Fiend
      • Jul 2009
      • 2195
      • Country: United Kingdom

      #17
      KISS keep it sweet and simple .... start with the most stupid sounding stuff ....
      NOT a car dealer! just an S2/RS2 enthusiast

      Comment

      • Monkeymagic
        S2Forum Possessed
        • Mar 2012
        • 3419
        • Country: England

        #18
        unlikely to be the belt as its turning over.
        pull a plug and earth it by securing it to the head.
        crank the engine over and see if you get a nice fat spark.
        if you are getting a spark and no fuel i also suspect the fuel pump has popped.
        time to get the volt meter out and test for voltage to pump.
        good luck most likely something very simple.

        Comment

        • UrS4boy
          S2Forum Obsessed
          • Feb 2006
          • 11859
          • Country: Canada

          #19
          Originally posted by Monkeymagic
          unlikely to be the belt as its turning over.
          pull a plug and earth it by securing it to the head.
          crank the engine over and see if you get a nice fat spark.
          if you are getting a spark and no fuel i also suspect the fuel pump has popped.
          time to get the volt meter out and test for voltage to pump.
          good luck most likely something very simple.
          Broken timing belt will still permit the engine to be cranked. (Pistons will give some intake valves a nice Glasgow kiss though)

          If the engine is an ABY, you have to pull the entire 20V turbo plate, with the coils and boot connectors and have 5 spark plugs (don't have to be the ones from the engine) in the boots and grounded to the cam cover.

          The Audi Enthusiast website. Forums for all Audis including A4, S4, A5, S5, A6, S6, allroad, A8, S8, TT, R8, Q5, Q7, 4000, 100, 200, v6, v8, vintage, local forums
          RS2'd 93 UrS4 5 spd sedan
          94 UrS4 V8 6 spd manual avant

          Comment

          • a25c
            S2Forum Addict
            • Mar 2007
            • 259
            • Country: Ireland

            #20
            Originally posted by UrS4boy
            Broken timing belt will still permit the engine to be cranked. (Pistons will give some intake valves a nice Glasgow kiss though)

            If the engine is an ABY, you have to pull the entire 20V turbo plate, with the coils and boot connectors and have 5 spark plugs (don't have to be the ones from the engine) in the boots and grounded to the cam cover.

            http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4s6/msgs/22611.phtml
            There was no noise before or after while cranking and lets not forget there was no fuel from the fuel filter pipe after removing and cranking over the engine.I am a bit miffed by the lack of connection to the engine control module through VCDS....
            96 UrS6
            96 UrS6 Avant
            Previous:
            '87 coupe quattro, '85 90 quattro
            '95 S2 Avant '89, 200 quattro 1b
            '00 Allroad 2.7T, '02 S6 V8 Avant

            '96 A6 2.5 TDI quattro Avant.

            Comment

            • a25c
              S2Forum Addict
              • Mar 2007
              • 259
              • Country: Ireland

              #21
              Originally posted by AndyP
              Take the panel out of the boot floor to expose the fuel pump access panel, then get somebody to crank the engine whilst you have your head in the boot, you should hear the pump kick in. Sounds like it's dead though.

              Also check the G28 engine speed sensor, the ECU will not start the pump unless it see's 25rpm from this sensor.

              Paul's thread helped me last week when mine wouldn't start.

              http://www.s2forum.com/forum/showthr...ighlight=start
              I did this earlier and there wasn't a peep out of it no sound and no vibration.....

              Thinking back now...when ign is first turned on should the fuel pump prime itself before cranking as I havn't heard that in a while?

              I should also ad that the car has been laid up for about 7 months and is only on the road about 10 days...
              96 UrS6
              96 UrS6 Avant
              Previous:
              '87 coupe quattro, '85 90 quattro
              '95 S2 Avant '89, 200 quattro 1b
              '00 Allroad 2.7T, '02 S6 V8 Avant

              '96 A6 2.5 TDI quattro Avant.

              Comment

              • UrS4boy
                S2Forum Obsessed
                • Feb 2006
                • 11859
                • Country: Canada

                #22
                Originally posted by a25c
                There was no noise before or after while cranking and lets not forget there was no fuel from the fuel filter pipe after removing and cranking over the engine.I am a bit miffed by the lack of connection to the engine control module through VCDS....
                If you have no connection to the ECU via these ports, then you might have blown the ECU power fuse in the red fuse holder above the ECU.

                UrS4/S6 Fault code access ports: http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4s6/msgs/90409.phtml

                RS2'd 93 UrS4 5 spd sedan
                94 UrS4 V8 6 spd manual avant

                Comment

                • UrS4boy
                  S2Forum Obsessed
                  • Feb 2006
                  • 11859
                  • Country: Canada

                  #23
                  Originally posted by a25c
                  Thinking back now...when ign is first turned on should the fuel pump prime itself before cranking as I havn't heard that in a while?
                  If you've heard that before on your 96 S6, you were imagining things (sorry). While my 98 C4 V6 fuel pump primes with the ignition key turned to "ON" (not START), the my 93 UrS4 AAN (and all UrS4/S6 AANs) is not wired that way. The Motronic ECU needs good signals from the G28 Engine Speed sensor, i.e. > 13 RPM before it will energize the J17 Fuel Pump relay which then powers the G6 fuel pump and a bunch of other engine devices. A weak battery with slow cranking speed will not start an AAN as a result:

                  J17 FP relay info:http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4s6/msgs/22583.phtml

                  From the J17 label in the upper right corner of this diagram:
                  RS2'd 93 UrS4 5 spd sedan
                  94 UrS4 V8 6 spd manual avant

                  Comment

                  • a25c
                    S2Forum Addict
                    • Mar 2007
                    • 259
                    • Country: Ireland

                    #24
                    Originally posted by UrS4boy
                    If you have no connection to the ECU via these ports, then you might have blown the ECU power fuse in the red fuse holder above the ECU.

                    UrS4/S6 Fault code access ports: http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4s6/msgs/90409.phtml

                    Thats just it ,I can't connect to the engine module but can to all the other modules....I can't understand why just the engine module I can't connect and not all of the modules if the ECU is at fault?
                    96 UrS6
                    96 UrS6 Avant
                    Previous:
                    '87 coupe quattro, '85 90 quattro
                    '95 S2 Avant '89, 200 quattro 1b
                    '00 Allroad 2.7T, '02 S6 V8 Avant

                    '96 A6 2.5 TDI quattro Avant.

                    Comment

                    • a25c
                      S2Forum Addict
                      • Mar 2007
                      • 259
                      • Country: Ireland

                      #25
                      Originally posted by UrS4boy
                      If you've heard that before on your 96 S6, you were imagining things (sorry). While my 98 C4 V6 fuel pump primes with the ignition key turned to "ON" (not START), the my 93 UrS4 AAN (and all UrS4/S6 AANs) is not wired that way. The Motronic ECU needs good signals from the G28 Engine Speed sensor, i.e. > 13 RPM before it will energize the J17 Fuel Pump relay which then powers the G6 fuel pump and a bunch of other engine devices. A weak battery with slow cranking speed will not start an AAN as a result:

                      J17 FP relay info:http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4s6/msgs/22583.phtml

                      From the J17 label in the upper right corner of this diagram:
                      http://members.shaw.ca/speedtek/UrS%...ice%20Map.html
                      maybe I am confusing with my type 85 coupe quattro that I had...
                      96 UrS6
                      96 UrS6 Avant
                      Previous:
                      '87 coupe quattro, '85 90 quattro
                      '95 S2 Avant '89, 200 quattro 1b
                      '00 Allroad 2.7T, '02 S6 V8 Avant

                      '96 A6 2.5 TDI quattro Avant.

                      Comment

                      • Monkeymagic
                        S2Forum Possessed
                        • Mar 2012
                        • 3419
                        • Country: England

                        #26
                        i would think that the other modules are on different fuses. hence if you have no power to engine ecu for some reason then that may be the problem.

                        Comment

                        • UrS4boy
                          S2Forum Obsessed
                          • Feb 2006
                          • 11859
                          • Country: Canada

                          #27
                          AAN Motronic Pin-out link

                          Originally posted by Monkeymagic
                          i would think that the other modules are on different fuses. hence if you have no power to engine ecu for some reason then that may be the problem.
                          No power to the AAN ECU via the constant power S26/102 fuse and the T55/18 connector, then you have a dead AAN and a car that isn't going anywhere except on a flat-deck until you get it sorted.

                          AAN ECU Pin-out and ECU fuse info (note the hyperlinks to each of the devices to which the ECU is connected): http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4s6/msgs/21009.phtml

                          No 12V on the red wire coming into the AAN S26/102 fuse holder = dead ECU



                          RS2'd 93 UrS4 5 spd sedan
                          94 UrS4 V8 6 spd manual avant

                          Comment

                          • a25c
                            S2Forum Addict
                            • Mar 2007
                            • 259
                            • Country: Ireland

                            #28
                            Bit of an update on this...

                            The fuse on top of the ECU was blown,he replaced it and the car started but ran like sh*t.The fuse then blew again before VCDS could connect to it.

                            He thinks the Ecu is damaged and we are awaiting a replacement to try it in the car.My battery pack ran flat and i jumped it from another car so he thinks the ECU got a "spike" from this...

                            Anybody recommendations for ECU repairs?
                            96 UrS6
                            96 UrS6 Avant
                            Previous:
                            '87 coupe quattro, '85 90 quattro
                            '95 S2 Avant '89, 200 quattro 1b
                            '00 Allroad 2.7T, '02 S6 V8 Avant

                            '96 A6 2.5 TDI quattro Avant.

                            Comment

                            • UrS4boy
                              S2Forum Obsessed
                              • Feb 2006
                              • 11859
                              • Country: Canada

                              #29
                              Originally posted by a25c
                              Bit of an update on this...The fuse on top of the ECU was blown,he replaced it and the car started but ran like sh*t.The fuse then blew again before VCDS could connect to it.
                              Which fuse was blown? The one in the red fuse holder or the one in the yellow fuse holder? My guess it was the yellow fuse holder and your problem is cracked coil wiring at the edge of the "20V turbo" coil pack plate, shorting out a coil or two, causing crap running and eventually the fuse in the yellow holder to blow.
                              RS2'd 93 UrS4 5 spd sedan
                              94 UrS4 V8 6 spd manual avant

                              Comment

                              • Monkeymagic
                                S2Forum Possessed
                                • Mar 2012
                                • 3419
                                • Country: England

                                #30
                                wouldn't that be a result if it was just a damaged coil? hope so.

                                Comment

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