Audi RS2 timing or belt question

[minim]

Posting this so others don't have to search. This guy seems to have the same problem as me. Here is a link to the thread.

http://www.s2forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21353&highlight=rs2+timing

I think my intake cam should be moved one tooth on the chain and then it would prolly be just a half tooth off again.

[minim]

There are two (or three) issues here.

1. The cam lobes on an RS2 exhaust cam are located 10 degrees away from the AAN/ABY exhaust cam lobe position.
2. Ignition timing is supposed to be the same relative to TDC on the ADU?AAN/ABY so the shutter wheel opening has to be rotated 10 deg to compensate
3. The thing with the 26 tooth water pump and the 150 tooth cam belt somehow messes up No.2 on the ADU, requiring a slight shift (less than a tooth to the left looking from the front).

BTW one tooth = 6.92 degrees (=360/52)

Reply to 3.

Yes, when I check the cam cover it is indeed half a tooth out like it was when I started this so it's spot on according to the picture from page 1 in this thread where it shows where it should be. The only problem is that in that position the cam's are not aligned at all. The first pics in my post with pictures of cam alignment shows how much off it is when the cam pulley is half a tooth off the mark.

[minim]

I agree, I've got a huge 3/4" torque wrench and I still can't get 180°, time to eat more pies I guess!!

Went and bought 3/4" and I got 180° now that things didn't crack between my hands anymore

I think the issue is this 10 degree difference. As far as I am aware the cams would be aligned only if the TDC mark on the pulley was at the ABY not the RS2 position. I will have to look more closely but unless Audi/Porsche took the time to remark the inside of the pulley then its not going to match when installed at the RS2 position. Don't forget that as the inlet cam is identical to the ABY (I believe) then the only way to get the published difference in the timing is to physically move it. Once you move it the marks don't line up! All of this could have been avoided by putting the marks in the right places on the pulley.
See what others think whilst I check the marks!

It could be. I didn't mean that it was one tooth out on the chain but one tooth out on the belt. It's more than one on the chain I believe. It's a nightmare getting things done correct when the marks are in the wrong spots ^^

[UrS4boy]

Another check might be to calculate what one tooth of the cam sprocket equates to in degrees. If its in the 10 degree region I think that stacks up.

There are two (or three) issues here.

1. The cam lobes on an RS2 exhaust cam are located 10 degrees away from the AAN/ABY exhaust cam lobe position.
2. Ignition timing is supposed to be the same relative to TDC on the ADU?AAN/ABY so the shutter wheel opening has to be rotated 10 deg to compensate
3. The thing with the 26 tooth water pump and the 150 tooth cam belt somehow messes up No.2 on the ADU, requiring a slight shift (less than a tooth to the left looking from the front).

BTW one tooth = 6.92 degrees (=360/52)

[AndyP]

Not many people get the full 180 on them. If its over 90 and in with thread lock it should be ok

Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk 4

I agree, I've got a huge 3/4" torque wrench and I still can't get 180°, time to eat more pies I guess!!

[twoqu]

Another check might be to calculate what one tooth of the cam sprocket equates to in degrees. If its in the 10 degree region I think that stacks up.

[twoqu]

The two marks seems to be in the same place relative to the amount of teeth spacing on both pullys. One indicates TDC and is at the back of the front TDC mark the other is presuamably to indicate TDC against the rear of the cylinder looking from behind unless I am mistaken. So they would only align if it was set to ABY timing not RS2.

[twoqu]

I think the issue is this 10 degree difference. As far as I am aware the cams would be aligned only if the TDC mark on the pulley was at the ABY not the RS2 position. I will have to look more closely but unless Audi/Porsche took the time to remark the inside of the pulley then its not going to match when installed at the RS2 position. Don't forget that as the inlet cam is identical to the ABY (I believe) then the only way to get the published difference in the timing is to physically move it. Once you move it the marks don't line up! All of this could have been avoided by putting the marks in the right places on the pulley.
See what others think whilst I check the marks!

[UrS4boy]

...All we have to do then is wait for Dave to draw his red lines all over the pic then we will have solved another RS2 myth. So if it not different then at least you have contributed something back in which is more than some do! You will also receive a credit from Dave.

It is different.

Here is the AAN one again (RS2 below it)



Sorry, I rotated the original RS2 105B photo but not quite perfectly. Still, you can see the difference in the shutter opening alignments.

[minim]

Not many people get the full 180 on them. If its over 90 and in with thread lock it should be ok

Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk 4

It is over 90 and I applied thread lock to it. As I'm seeing now there is actually 1/2 torque wrenches that goes to 350Nm and one of the extensions I used was the "heavy duty" (don't know the English word for it but the one that should be used for thick walled version of 1/2) so it should be at least as strong. Hmm in doubt if i should bother getting 3/4 to do 180 degrees now..

[minim]

Time to upgrade to 3/4 at least I guess!
I have never used the degree method only a huge torque wrench. The diference in the figures is down to the increse in leverage from the factory tool.

Yeah. I'm so in doubt if it's enough or what. I was using 1/2 now as that's the biggest I got but I did feel that it was close to either breaking the extension, the wrench or the 27mm that was used. What sucks now is that it's pooring down, my GF took the allroad so I'm left with the motorcycle to drive a hour to fetch 3/4 tools

Turning out that I have alot of questions I'm not an educated mechanics so I hope you can bear with it..

Aligned up the crank as it should be at TDC sylinder 1 (the one to the front) and I did check down the plughole that it was actually at top as I had the mark in at the crank. This is then how it looks like underneath the cam cover. When I put on the cam cover it's also aligned a half tooth out "like it should". The marks on the cam do not align up.




If I then do align the cam's to the mark inside the cam cover I get far out on the crank and the mark is a tooth out comparing to the edge of the top like shown in the pictures below.



Far out on the cam pulley..


Look how far out the crank mark is.




Now.. I'm skeptic to this not aligning up at all for one reason. My car has obviously had the wrong pulley on the crank so I'm wondering if the ones putting on the wrong pulley also put the cam at the wrong place on the chain to compensate for using a wrong pulley. Since we found out that the mark on the pulley and the key was at the same place on the different pulleys in theory everything should be mechanically correct as it was before but I can't help noticing how everything doesn't align as it should.

[UrS4boy]

Ok doing that comparison I can clearly see that the hall window is offset. Here is the key and the mark on the outer ring ligned up and the difference seems to be the hall window. A comparison of the pictures of the back side should still be done to get it 100% but it shows really good doing it this way.

This is what I said the difference would be. And if I can figure out how to lay a protractor over the diagram, we will be able to see how much (I presume it will be 10 degrees).

Back shortly with the "red-lined" diagram/photo twoqu mentioned (sorry I am just up (8:05 AM here).

[diesel des]

Not many people get the full 180 on them. If its over 90 and in with thread lock it should be ok

Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk 4

[twoqu]

The centre to centre of the 2079 multiplier is 300mm. Not vey good at maths but perhaps you can use that to make a calculation as to what force you have applied.
Unless its as easy as 300mm leverage = 100NM reduction!

[twoqu]

Time to upgrade to 3/4 at least I guess!
I have never used the degree method only a huge torque wrench. The diference in the figures is down to the increase in leverage from the factory tool.