MAF-less

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  • Rusty
    Super Moderator
    • Jun 2004
    • 18953
    • Country: United Kingdom

    #1

    MAF-less

    What can do this? VEMS, MAXX ECU?

    What do these use to remove the MAF?

    With a new MAF looking like £300 and the connector being an issue, I'm interested in what options there are and what they entail? Having a customiseable ECU for future plans with full diagnostics is also of interest.
    Cheers'en, AndyC
    1994 ABY Coupe - Projekt Alpinweiss
  • martinws
    S2Forum Maniac
    • Oct 2008
    • 917
    • Country: Scotland

    #2
    I think they run on a kind of efficiency table that just measures pressure and assumes flow is off a set table. Prj can do it on motronic.

    Comment

    • vti2
      S2Forum Addict
      • Jul 2010
      • 281
      • Home: Portugal Current: Germany

      #3
      If it is a Street Car stay with the motronic, for me the best sistem, just put a 95mm maf on it and tune it.

      Comment

      • newsh
        S2Forum Obsessed
        • Aug 2003
        • 16226
        • Country: United Kingdom

        #4
        This is called speed density tuning. PRJ can do this on Motronic, mine is running like this at the mo although not finally tuned yet.. Basically you tune the VE (Volumetric Efficiency) table, MAP vs RPM.


        You can do this with Vems or Maxx.

        I was talking to Stuart at MRC yesterday about this, he says they've been down the Mafless route but have mostly gone back to the Maf for road cars. They do retune with bigger Mafs on higher power cars though.


        I'm thinking of having a tweak of my VE table today after my disappointing track session yesterday

        S2 Coupe 3B Project


        Ur quattro restoration

        S2 Avant

        Boost is the new rock and roll!
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        • vti2
          S2Forum Addict
          • Jul 2010
          • 281
          • Home: Portugal Current: Germany

          #5
          MAF is much more accurate thats why runs better on Street

          Comment

          • Rusty
            Super Moderator
            • Jun 2004
            • 18953
            • Country: United Kingdom

            #6
            I know prj uses RS4 MAFs on bigger turbos, so that's a possibility but he's pretty much the last motronic man now.
            Cheers'en, AndyC
            1994 ABY Coupe - Projekt Alpinweiss

            Comment

            • Rikki Kitto
              S2Forum Zealot
              • Feb 2010
              • 6276
              • Country: England

              #7
              What about Automark bit of a trek up North like but closer than PRJ

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              • quattro-nick
                S2Forum Extremist
                • Sep 2012
                • 1746
                • Country: Belgium

                #8
                i dont have issues(maf-less) at all with vems on road or track
                audi coupe quattro b2 2.2 20vt project (573hp-626nm)
                TWINCHARGED power,zero lag
                AEM W/M injection

                Comment

                • diesel des
                  S2Forum Possessed
                  • Feb 2004
                  • 3896

                  #9
                  Yea motronic is great on stock ish cars but when you have many mods the maf can be an issue. The biggest issue is someone else needs to tweek you settings. That's why I'm with vems. Idle isn't as perfect as motronic in all conditions but other than that its great. Idle once adjusted is v good just not motronic smooth. Vems biggest problem is it has so much to play with you can get lost and never leave it alone.

                  Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Tapatalk 2

                  Comment

                  • quattro-nick
                    S2Forum Extremist
                    • Sep 2012
                    • 1746
                    • Country: Belgium

                    #10
                    des,idle works well in vems if you take "ignition based idle control"
                    much more stable
                    audi coupe quattro b2 2.2 20vt project (573hp-626nm)
                    TWINCHARGED power,zero lag
                    AEM W/M injection

                    Comment

                    • diesel des
                      S2Forum Possessed
                      • Feb 2004
                      • 3896

                      #11
                      Yep I know that but with air con cold days hot days just started etc it isn't as good as motronic. It's not bad, just not as perfect.

                      Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Tapatalk 2

                      Comment

                      • Rocco
                        S2Forum Zealot
                        • Aug 2007
                        • 6393
                        • Country: Spain

                        #12
                        I'm with MAF and Speed Density in my two Evos.

                        Both works great and without issues.

                        So I'm happy. Once you pass 400bhp is better to go speed density.
                        RED Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VI TME nº 16 of 250
                        BLACK Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VI TME nº 189 of 250
                        LWB Audi Sport Quattro project

                        Comment

                        • Error404
                          Super Moderator
                          • Mar 2007
                          • 19789
                          • Country: United Kingdom

                          #13
                          Without MAF ECUs use the MAP sensor and VE table with IAT to compute charge mass air flow. That's why it is so sensitive to any setup changes as even the slightest change to how any of those values are measured or delivered can throw the VE table out of calibration and mess up the AFR. Also recalibrating the VE table thoroughly is impossible without time on a proper loaded dyno.
                          I would imagine it's easy enough to rescale the MAF function IF you know how to recalibrate Motronic in that depth, hence why I think only Dmitri can do it. All good ECUs should have that functionality
                          Panthero Coupé quattro 20vt
                          Indigo ABY coupé
                          Imola B6 S4 Avant

                          Comment

                          • Rusty
                            Super Moderator
                            • Jun 2004
                            • 18953
                            • Country: United Kingdom

                            #14
                            Can a WBO2 be used to correct things in real time?
                            Cheers'en, AndyC
                            1994 ABY Coupe - Projekt Alpinweiss

                            Comment

                            • A80Avant
                              S2Forum Obsessed
                              • Sep 2005
                              • 10873
                              • Country: Greece

                              #15
                              Originally posted by diesel des
                              Yep I know that but with air con cold days hot days just started etc it isn't as good as motronic. It's not bad, just not as perfect.

                              Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Tapatalk 2
                              What version are you running? Idle on my car is much better than motronic. Better than it has ever been.
                              Smoothness is a deception with motronic as it sits at 860rpm whereas with vems and any aftermarket you are always a bit higher.

                              Comment

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