ABY and vcds

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  • bernsaudi
    S2Forum Maniac
    • Feb 2007
    • 592
    • Country: United Kingdom

    #1

    ABY and vcds

    Hello, I'm trying to chase a flatspot and have a 00561 adaptation mul limit not reached,
    I have plugged in the vcds but am unsure what facility it has with my car or what measuring blocks I should bring up to look at o2 voltage, maf etc, any help will be greatly appreciated
  • Error404
    Super Moderator
    • Mar 2007
    • 19789
    • Country: United Kingdom

    #2
    AFRs out of trim range
    First step is boost leak test and also check fuel delivery is correct I.e. Injectors and FPR working correctly.
    Panthero Coupé quattro 20vt
    Indigo ABY coupé
    Imola B6 S4 Avant

    Comment

    • bernsaudi
      S2Forum Maniac
      • Feb 2007
      • 592
      • Country: United Kingdom

      #3
      I just put these injectors in, any idea what version they are? I cant remember what I was told..
      Attached Files

      Comment

      • S2central.net
        Retired OG Mod
        • Jul 2003
        • 16590
        • Country: Northern Ireland

        #4
        Need to see the Bosch number - it's a 9 or 10 digit starting with 0
        Paul Nugent
        Webmaster http://S2central.net
        Administrator http://S2forum.com

        1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
        2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
        2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

        Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

        There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

        Comment

        • UrS4boy
          S2Forum Obsessed
          • Feb 2006
          • 11859
          • Country: Canada

          #5
          00561 and G70 MAF info

          Originally posted by bernsaudi
          Hello, I'm trying to chase a flatspot and have a 00561 adaptation mul limit not reached
          00561 Blink code: 2413

          Mixture adaptation

          -Adaptation limit
          (multiplicative)
          exceeded
          -Adaptation limit
          (multiplicative) not
          reached
          -Adaptation limit
          (additive) exceeded
          -Adaptation limit
          (additive) not reached

          Fuel system pressure too low or too high
          -Failure of spark plugs, ignition coils
          and ignition output stages
          -Ingress of air to G70
          -Leak in exhaust system up to catalyst
          -Incorrect signal from air mass meter G70

          G70 Mass Air Flow (MAF) sensor info:


          The Audi Enthusiast website. Forums for all Audis including A4, S4, A5, S5, A6, S6, allroad, A8, S8, TT, R8, Q5, Q7, 4000, 100, 200, v6, v8, vintage, local forums
          RS2'd 93 UrS4 5 spd sedan
          94 UrS4 V8 6 spd manual avant

          Comment

          • bernsaudi
            S2Forum Maniac
            • Feb 2007
            • 592
            • Country: United Kingdom

            #6
            Thanks all, the only codes visible on the injectors are:
            MJY100460
            D3184GB

            I put the above set in as a replacement for red collar injectors:
            MJY10023

            I didn't write the other number down.

            Is there a reading on vcds that gives me fuel pressure and injector duty?

            Cheers!
            p.s i must add that it is pulling like a train once I push the pedal past 60% all the way up.

            Comment

            • S2central.net
              Retired OG Mod
              • Jul 2003
              • 16590
              • Country: Northern Ireland

              #7
              OE diagnostics will tell you some useful information (injector opening times - not duty cycle), but unless you have a known good reference point to work from they won't tell you much running such aftermarket injectors. What spec are they supposed to be - i.e. what is your ECU setup for ?

              OE diagnostics will not tell you fuel pressure, duty cycle, boost pressure or MAF voltage - annoying but true.

              The Moronic ECU will try to adapt fuelling within its programmed limits of plus or minus the target AFR at any given load point (determined by MAF signal)... This is closed-loop mode.
              Once load goes above a certain point (also programmable) the ECU will stop trying to adapt and just use the injector opening times which are driven directly by the fuel tables... i.e open-loop mode.

              At a guess I would say your injectors are too rich for what the ECU expects if its running nice and rich (maybe too rich) when you load it up... then in closed loop mode, no matter how much it tries to back off the fuelling to adapt for lower AFR it fails to stay within limits.

              All that said - if the injectors are correct for the ECU, then you are looking at a boost leak, fuel pressure regulator problem of a bad MAF.
              Paul Nugent
              Webmaster http://S2central.net
              Administrator http://S2forum.com

              1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
              2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
              2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

              Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

              There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

              Comment

              • andy10v
                S2Forum Zealot
                • Mar 2009
                • 5996
                • Country: Scotland

                #8
                Originally posted by bernsaudi
                Thanks all, the only codes visible on the injectors are:
                MJY100460
                D3184GB

                I put the above set in as a replacement for red collar injectors:
                MJY10023
                A quick google shows

                MJY100460 480cc

                MJY10023 380cc
                Current-2004 Impreza PPP wagon

                Sold-92 3B coupe-RS2+, 996s, konis, rear torsen, forged rods........
                Sold ABY-stock

                Comment

                • S2central.net
                  Retired OG Mod
                  • Jul 2003
                  • 16590
                  • Country: Northern Ireland

                  #9
                  just slightly different then !!!!!
                  Paul Nugent
                  Webmaster http://S2central.net
                  Administrator http://S2forum.com

                  1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
                  2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
                  2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

                  Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

                  There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

                  Comment

                  • bernsaudi
                    S2Forum Maniac
                    • Feb 2007
                    • 592
                    • Country: United Kingdom

                    #10
                    Morning, what cc should I have for 380hp? Both of these seem low in what I've read so far. Also when it comes to fuel pressure should I keep the stock 3.8 bar or move up to 4 or even 5 bar?
                    The 380 cc one came to me with a 1.9 bar chipset, the second set (460cc) came with a live map left at 'about' 360hp. ..

                    I put the 460's in and now have a flatspot.

                    Comment

                    • UrS4boy
                      S2Forum Obsessed
                      • Feb 2006
                      • 11859
                      • Country: Canada

                      #11
                      OE 20VT Fuel Injector Info (with link to Fuel Pressure Regulator info)

                      Originally posted by bernsaudi
                      Morning, what cc should I have for 380hp? Both of these seem low in what I've read so far. Also when it comes to fuel pressure should I keep the stock 3.8 bar or move up to 4 or even 5 bar?
                      Stock AAN/ABY injectors with a 4 Bar Fuel Pressure regulator are good for about 280 hp max. ADU injectors with a 4 Bar Fuel Pressure regulator are good for a max of about 380 hp. Fuel injector nominal flow rates are measured at 3 Bar.

                      AAN and ABY: Audi PN 034 906 031 B, Bosch PN: 0 280 150 951, flow:
                      280 cc/ min @ 3.0 bar (= about 26.7 lb/hr at SG = 0.72)
                      315 cc/ min @ 3.8 bar
                      323 cc/ min @ 4.0 bar (AAN and ABY use a 4.0 Bar nominal FPR*)
                      361 cc/ min @ 5.0 bar

                      ADU: Audi PN 034 906 031 F, Bosch PN: 0 280 150 984, flow:
                      360 cc/ min @ 3.0 bar (= about 34.3 lb/hr at SG = 0.72)
                      405 cc/ min @ 3.8 bar (the ADU uses a 3.8 Bar nominal FPR*)
                      416 cc/ min @ 4.0 bar
                      465 cc/ min @ 5.0 bar

                      REFERENCE: OE 20VT Fuel Injector Info (with link to Fuel Pressure Regulator info):
                      The Audi Enthusiast website. Forums for all Audis including A4, S4, A5, S5, A6, S6, allroad, A8, S8, TT, R8, Q5, Q7, 4000, 100, 200, v6, v8, vintage, local forums




                      RS2'd 93 UrS4 5 spd sedan
                      94 UrS4 V8 6 spd manual avant

                      Comment

                      • S2central.net
                        Retired OG Mod
                        • Jul 2003
                        • 16590
                        • Country: Northern Ireland

                        #12
                        Originally posted by bernsaudi
                        Morning, what cc should I have for 380hp? Both of these seem low in what I've read so far. Also when it comes to fuel pressure should I keep the stock 3.8 bar or move up to 4 or even 5 bar?
                        The 380 cc one came to me with a 1.9 bar chipset, the second set (460cc) came with a live map left at 'about' 360hp. ..

                        I put the 460's in and now have a flatspot.
                        Moronic tuning doesn't work like that... The ECU is configured with a bunch of parameters that align to the injectors and FPR on the car. If the ECU's view of that is different from reality then you will have problems.

                        380hp is pretty much the limit for 360cc injectors at approx 4bar in our 5-cyl motors.

                        I would need to see the motor chip contents to discover what the ECU expects. Did the previous tuner setup injector latency correctly for these components ?
                        Paul Nugent
                        Webmaster http://S2central.net
                        Administrator http://S2forum.com

                        1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
                        2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
                        2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

                        Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

                        There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

                        Comment

                        • bernsaudi
                          S2Forum Maniac
                          • Feb 2007
                          • 592
                          • Country: United Kingdom

                          #13
                          so i think my penny has dropped. I had a standard fuel pressure regulator on (3.8) with the 360cc injectors. I have had a look and the regulator I have fitted at the same time as the 460cc injectors is not a 4 bar. it is a 5 bar...didn't notice.
                          I will change the fpr back to the stock one tomorrow and report what change has occurred.
                          Last edited by bernsaudi; 11 July 2016, 20:52.

                          Comment

                          • UrS4boy
                            S2Forum Obsessed
                            • Feb 2006
                            • 11859
                            • Country: Canada

                            #14
                            Originally posted by bernsaudi
                            so i think my penny has dropped. I had a standard fuel pressure regulator on (3.8) with the 360cc injectors. I have had a look and the regulator I have fitted at the same time as the 460cc injectors is not a 4 bar. it is a 5 bar...didn't notice. I will change the fpr back to the stock one tomorrow and report what change has occurred.
                            Technically there is nothing wrong with a 5 Bar Fuel pressure regulator as long as:

                            a) you software is aware of this, i.e. the tuning is geared to the higher pressures, i.e. more fuel per squirt

                            b) you have a big enough/strong enough fuel pump to provide 7 bar pressure, i.e. 5 bar plus the additional 2 bar or so boost. That is not possible with a stock fuel pump and might not even be possible with a Bosch 044 pump.
                            RS2'd 93 UrS4 5 spd sedan
                            94 UrS4 V8 6 spd manual avant

                            Comment

                            • andy10v
                              S2Forum Zealot
                              • Mar 2009
                              • 5996
                              • Country: Scotland

                              #15
                              380cc at 3 bar will be about

                              427cc at 3.8 bar
                              439cc at 4 bar
                              490cc at 5 bar

                              480cc at 3 bar will be about

                              539cc at 3.8 bar
                              554cc at 4 bar
                              619cc at 5 bar
                              Current-2004 Impreza PPP wagon

                              Sold-92 3B coupe-RS2+, 996s, konis, rear torsen, forged rods........
                              Sold ABY-stock

                              Comment

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