CQ AC relay or early hitachi ECU question

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  • ShadowofBob
    S2Forum Enthusiast
    • Apr 2007
    • 130
    • Country: United States

    #1

    CQ AC relay or early hitachi ECU question

    So I charged my AC on my CQ which has retrofitted B4 Climate control. And it does work...sort of. The control head says all is well and that the AC is on. The trigger wire from the head is being grounded when I turn the AC on. Unfortunately my AC relay doesn't appear to be working. Does anyone have or know the pinouts on it?

    I know:

    87: To AC clutch(is bridged with 30 upon trigger)
    30: +
    5/T: + trigger wire(+ w/ ignition)
    31: ground (is controlled by HVAC head)
    87a: ???

    Does anyone know what 87a is? It goes to pin 24a(this is also bridged to 8a) on the early Hitachi ECU. I think it is just a signal(12v w/ ac clutch engauged, 0 w/ it not) wire for the Hitachi ECU but I am not positive on that. Does it need to be connected for the relay to work? I had it bypassed since the B4CC can do this function with one of it's own outputs. I tried reconnecting and it didn't do anything.

    I'm think my relay coincidentally failed since working 6 months ago or I somehow burnt it out. Although I am not sure how since all looks good, unless the 87a does more than I thought.
    1990 Audi Coupe - 7A for now
  • panzerwagen
    S2Forum Maniac
    • Feb 2004
    • 900
    • Country: United States

    #2
    I'd say you may have to score the Bentley Manual ....

    just for the electrical schematics. It is worth it's cost just for the electrical info it has.

    Comment

    • S2central.net
      Retired OG Mod
      • Jul 2003
      • 16590
      • Country: Northern Ireland

      #3
      I like a challenge
      Paul Nugent
      Webmaster http://S2central.net
      Administrator http://S2forum.com

      1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
      2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
      2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

      Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

      There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

      Comment

      • S2central.net
        Retired OG Mod
        • Jul 2003
        • 16590
        • Country: Northern Ireland

        #4
        87: To AC clutch(is bridged with 30 upon trigger) : YES

        30: + : YES, routed from pin 19 on head-unit actually

        5/T: + trigger wire(+ w/ ignition) : This one is confusing. Bentley has a typo showing bk/gy connection to a/c programmer on track 35 which is shown on another page as bl/gy. This would seem to be pin #5 on the controller.

        31: ground (is controlled by HVAC head)

        87a: This is just described as connecting to fuel injection control unit - must be signalling one way or the other. Further investigation required. I can scan this if you wannit
        Paul Nugent
        Webmaster http://S2central.net
        Administrator http://S2forum.com

        1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
        2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
        2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

        Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

        There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

        Comment

        • S2central.net
          Retired OG Mod
          • Jul 2003
          • 16590
          • Country: Northern Ireland

          #5
          Right - found it...

          That pin 4/87a should track to pin 24A on the ECU of the 7A engine (MPI) this is a 0.5mm wire that is also bridged to pin 8A on the MPI ECU.

          Note also that pin 23 on the head-unit should connect to MPI ECU on pin 12A - this seems to be a black/yellow wire.

          HTH - Just shout if you need the schematics, or more help if this for a different engine application

          Paul
          Paul Nugent
          Webmaster http://S2central.net
          Administrator http://S2forum.com

          1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
          2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
          2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

          Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

          There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

          Comment

          • S2central.net
            Retired OG Mod
            • Jul 2003
            • 16590
            • Country: Northern Ireland

            #6
            WARNING - DANGER - that info above only applies to MPI ECU up to 8B-L-001109 (approx March 1990).

            Later ones have DIFFERENT MPI wiring which I've just noticed such that

            A/C Relay pin 87a goes to MPI pin 10C
            Head Unit pin 23 goes to MPI pin 11C

            To clear this up let me know which drawins you need
            Paul Nugent
            Webmaster http://S2central.net
            Administrator http://S2forum.com

            1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
            2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
            2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

            Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

            There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

            Comment

            • S2central.net
              Retired OG Mod
              • Jul 2003
              • 16590
              • Country: Northern Ireland

              #7
              This shows it pretty well - for a 3B application of the old clima system in a Coupe --->
              Paul Nugent
              Webmaster http://S2central.net
              Administrator http://S2forum.com

              1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
              2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
              2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

              Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

              There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

              Comment

              • S2central.net
                Retired OG Mod
                • Jul 2003
                • 16590
                • Country: Northern Ireland

                #8
                And this one for sweeter digital climate control as per B4. This for ABY, but you'll see the important differences and signalling links to ECU which you can extrapolate to 3B or 7A

                Paul Nugent
                Webmaster http://S2central.net
                Administrator http://S2forum.com

                1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
                2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
                2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

                Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

                There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

                Comment

                • S2central.net
                  Retired OG Mod
                  • Jul 2003
                  • 16590
                  • Country: Northern Ireland

                  #9
                  Looks to me like pinout on the relay at position 4 is different between old clima and new system.
                  Paul Nugent
                  Webmaster http://S2central.net
                  Administrator http://S2forum.com

                  1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
                  2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
                  2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

                  Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

                  There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

                  Comment

                  • ShadowofBob
                    S2Forum Enthusiast
                    • Apr 2007
                    • 130
                    • Country: United States

                    #10
                    I do have the Bentley manual. It doesn't go into enough detail on the functions of each pin on the ECU for my liking.

                    Thanks for the info. The reason my wiring is different is because of my B4 climate unit I swapped in. I bridged 5/T with the other positive signal wire on the ac programmer so that it is + all the time since the B4 unit grounds rather than turns the + signals on.

                    I guess I'll just leave the relay hooked up to the ECU and not the B4's signal wire, at least until I do more testing and confirm it functions the same way as the B4 wire.

                    Unfortunately something has gone awry in my my B4 head. Now my wire that triggers the clutch relay isn't grounding for some reason. It does still go from infinite resistance to 230 ohm with the AC on, but doesn't pass my multimeter's continuity test with a ground. Either something inside is bad or my wiring is at fault.

                    If I can't fix it would it be a bad idea to use the unused signal wire(12v w/ AC on) that goes to the motronic ECU to trigger the relay?

                    No codes are being thrown from the climate head(well asides from my interior temp sensor fan being faulty, but that is insignificant) and it thinks it is triggering the AC on.
                    Last edited by ShadowofBob; 7 May 2008, 04:27.
                    1990 Audi Coupe - 7A for now

                    Comment

                    • S2central.net
                      Retired OG Mod
                      • Jul 2003
                      • 16590
                      • Country: Northern Ireland

                      #11
                      Just get the right flavour of Relay #4 installe and check the wiring up to its pins from your new loom is correct.. That should get you going.

                      Paul
                      Paul Nugent
                      Webmaster http://S2central.net
                      Administrator http://S2forum.com

                      1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
                      2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
                      2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

                      Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

                      There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

                      Comment

                      • ShadowofBob
                        S2Forum Enthusiast
                        • Apr 2007
                        • 130
                        • Country: United States

                        #12
                        I have the correct OEM relay(got an extra couple at the junkyard) that came with my car. The problem now is the trigger wire issue I mentioned in my previous post.
                        1990 Audi Coupe - 7A for now

                        Comment

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