The devil vomits in my kettle (with a water leak)...

[S2central.net]

Just nipped outside to see the state of play and investigate the sunroof drains.

Firstly - still got water seeping in - apparent now at multiple locations on bottom of door seal. The application of more sealant yesterday has definitely altered the route the water now takes. I think that's good but not 100% convinced yet.

Secondly - the sunroof drain is clear to see when you peer in... Just never had to notice it before. I ran a long section of electrical cable down the tube and it popped out the hole that Johne showed last night - with no resriction or dirt of any significance. Ironically on the dry side of the car I was unable to route the cable all the way down the channel as it was snagging somewhere. Anyway - I carefully directed some streams of water down the channels and in both cases all the water spat out of the drain as per new found understanding.

So I've topped up the sealant inside and out again. As the thickness of this builds it must be greater a larger barrier for any water ingress as it sort of puffs out the seal a lil bit. Fingers X'd again. Rain never far away for another test.

[S2central.net]

Cheers John... will have to investigate further now... and think of something suitable as a probe to clean the channels.

[johne]

N/S door lower hinge and cable tube. The front sunroof drain outlet can be seen opposite the shiny bolt head.

O/S rear sunroof drain outlet inside the hatchback recess.

Sorry that pictures aren't great but it's dark, cold and raining outside at the moment!

John

[S2central.net]

Mmmm - this is interesting then... ever chance my black sealant is blocking these channels then. IRK...

This shows you what assumption can do - I always thought these infamous sunroof channels were to allow any water rolling off the roof to be caught into some sort of gutter while the sunroof is opened and safely away... Hence why you don't get a wet head if you open the sunroof after rain shower.

Anybody got photos of where these rain channels are in real life - I could hunt out my Bentley book if it shows it correctly.

Could it be one of my forward channels is blocked and that water is backing up and finding another way past the door seal ?

[johne]

Show me where these sunroof drain channels are then... I've heard about them, but never found them.

Also - why would water get past the sunroof seal in the first place ?

Quote from Bentley: "front water drain hoses are routed through the A pillars and discharge above the front door lower hinges"

"Rear water drain hoses are routed through the C pillars and discharge into the water drain channel under the rear lid"

Bentley also recommend you clean these drain channels out regularly from the top for the front and from the bottom for the rear using a 230 cm inner core from a speedometer cable - obvously not from one of our cars Finally found a use for my Europa - it had the longest speedo cable I've ever seen.......

I believe the sunroof seal isn't designed to be or capable of being waterproof - it's primary function is to keep wind noise out. Water is caught in the tray under the glass and routed away down the drain hoses.

John

[S2central.net]

Show me where these sunroof drain channels are then... I've heard about them, but never found them.

Also - why would water get past the sunroof seal in the first place ?

Drilling holes in the floor has come to my mind - sad but true - seen it done on plenty old rally cars which have been bent once too often and were no longer watertight.

[johne]

False alarm - the car is still leaking... Good inch of water under the drivers seat after last nights rain. I am "this close" to repairing that ****ing car with a sledge hammer now. Totally at my wits end with it. Sure its 'only' 120 quid for a brand new door seal but I just have this horrid feeling that it won't be the cure. I've got silcone here, silicone there and everywhere I can get to but its still ******ed.

Paul, I may have missed something earlier in this post, but are you sure it's the door seal? If you really did have an inch of water under the driver's seat that's more than could ever come in that way. My thought would be the 4 sunrooof drain channels. If they're blocked then the rain over all that surface area could equal an inch under the driver's seat.

If all else fails you'll have to adopt the Lotus solution and drill holes in the floor. When I bought my Lotus Europa I found these holes in the floor so I filled them up. The next time out in heavy rain the passenger side filled up with so much water that my passenger got a wet bum!

John

[S2central.net]

No wandering - runs straight as - even if tracking is causing tyres to scrub too much.

Doing a service soon though - will do a good old bolt check though - can't hurt to be sure.

[s2driveruk]

is it wandering about too at speed? check your wishbone bush bolts, noticed mine had worked half a turn looser than i'd expect and it was shocking, guess the bolt stretched

[S2central.net]

Oh Dave - we could counsel each other for months... I also have major vibration issues that really sap the enjoyment of the car.

Mine is mostly likely tracking or wheel balance related. Vibration starts about 70 and is worst about 80... Beyond that it reduces a little bit - makes for stressful motorway driving I can tell you. Pretty sure mine is frontal as its felt in the steering rather noticeably.

[s2driveruk]

fingers crossed...then you (like me) can start to focus on more pressing issues...in my case the propshaft vibrating at speed

[S2central.net]

Well I've been out and ran some more sealant round the outside of the seal - in that gap you can tease open. Paid special attention to the rivet areas and gave them extra goo. Also ran it right along the top surface of the seal where the window meets the roof. Figured any water creeping in there would make its way forward.

Car dry now, but big dark clouds looming so a test is being made for me as I type.

[s2driveruk]

yeah i had that problem too Paul, was landing in the drivers side door pocket - was a while back and i think was down to a badly fitting seal or something...I think its dry at the moment though (havent checked to be honest)

[S2central.net]

Well Dave - yours looks exactly like mine at least - only in white. Mine is doing the same... Right down to the crusty tubes for the procon ten cables. I have run plenty of sealant over all the rivet areas. All rivets seem to be OK.

On the inside of your door seal - see if you can feel moisture ingress around the area of the grab handle in the roof. Mine is curiously wet there and that is well away from the rivets. Its just so demoralising...

[s2driveruk]

You're not alone...

Paul, keep the faith, you're not alone on the hunt for the source of a pond in an S2

I've stripped out mine today to try and locate the leak and try and dry out the carpet (it stinks ) so mine is also currently looking like a touring car inside



I had some good mold all over the underfelt and it was absolutely saturated drivers side front and rear with standing water still left when i got it out.



I had my boy stood in the car on the hunt for leaks while i soaked it with the hose for a few mins. with the door shut, there was nothing obvious coming in anyway which was annoying and puzzling. We gave up and i let him out and instantly the was a leak from the inside of the door seal which came out at the base of the a pillar for the windscreen, running down the side of the dash and landing on the lower plastic trim whiich i guess is a possible route to the carpet. Still not convinced its the only source of leaks but definately one.

comes in here:


and drips down to here:


Didnt take a picture but its coming in through one of the rivet holes for the black metal trim above the door, runs under the a pillar plastic trim and pops out as above. Someone has attempted to repair it before and used putty or something.

will keep going and see if anything else shows itself while i try and order some new (non absorbent) undefelt and dry the carpet ready to refit.

Totally agree, its a f***king faff, its been annoying me for months, not least when iced inside all winter, mated to annoyingly a flat battery on the few times i was going to drive it....nevermind more fun choosing what to retrim some new recaro's in so all not quite lost yet

Keep the faith!

David