Ice Problems

[Ski]

Howdie

Im having trouble with my amps in my car And, finally collected the relevent information to present in front of the Ice Board in hopes for some clues as to what my problem is.

Problem : both rear amps turn off, and on, as and when they please. This effects both rear amps, and the sound stops for a fraction of a second in all speakers while this happens. No setup change implemented, they have been working fine for a month after getting a new head unit and new front speakers. Prior to this upgrade been working fine for years.

Diag : When the amps go out, im still getting a reading of 1.2 on the live cables in both amps, and 0.06 from the remote cable. All speakers connected directly to the head unit work fine. All fuses in live cable and in amps appear fine. Sony has 25a fuse and XS has a 20 amp fuse.

My setup : Dont laugh, im clueless when it comes to electricity and ice, so i set this up the only way i knew how. I dont want to spend any money on extra stuff, but all suggestions are welcome of how to improve this setup with what i already got. Maybe I dont need 2 amps?

[Jamo]

Hmm you've biwired the amp remotes from one amp to another not the best.

You head unit can't supply enough ampage down the remote wire would be my bet.

Make sure you using remote out and not amplied aerial out on the head unit ( pioneers and such have different outputs for this )

You may have to wire them to a relay with seperate 12v input switched by the remote out of the head unit.

Heres a test disconnect one the amp remote wires, dont matter which and run the system and see if it stays stable.

If it does deffo head unit can't supply enough ampage down remote wire

[Ski]

Gr8 thanks going to test now.

Forgot to add, theres also the mid speakers next to the back seat connected directly to the headunit, forgot to add that to the above piccie.

[Ski]

Disconnected the remote wire from the amp at the end of the remote chain but still same results.
Noticed there is a 15a fuse on the live cable which feeds both amps, its in good condition tho. and the earth out of amps is going to the minus on the battery me thinks.

By using multimeter + on the live cable and the - on the earth cable, does that fully test the amps are earthed?

[Jonas_R]

Well here are my thougts and inputs.

You should as Jamo mentioned scrap the parallel + connection. Also you should not connect earth to the battery but find a suited place on the car.
I dont believe it should be a problem running the remote from one amp to the next. Iam doing this myself with no problems. Me thinks it perhaps is a combination of poor earth and + connection.

[Ski]

excellent more feedback, thanks Jonas.

So to prove the theory right, you think disconnecting one amp completely would prove a good test?

P.S. im getting the same amount of voltage on the live cable in the second amp as I am if i test my battery.

Anyone can recommend a good earth? maybe under the seat somewhere?

Could this be anything to do with the car? my immobiliser is playing up and every week or so my hazard lights come on for a few seconds.. weired.. even more weired how its been working fine for so long and suddenly its not.

[Jamo]

Whoa nelly! Didn't notice you were ground to the battery.

You should not do this, you can create ground loop via the amps for your other cars electrics such as the starter motor etc.

Both amps should be grounded to the car body.

Running remotes in series can work as long as the head unit is powerful enough to do it.

I've had to in installations of 2 or more amps on some occasions wire in a switch realy to a 12v feed to provide power to the amps.

[Ski]

ahh your image just poped up I see what you mean. Dont have a distibuter box tho Run both live cables direct from battery to eatch amp maybe?

Ive just disconnected 1 amp completely and other one still dosnt work. I think I need to strip everything out and start again.

[Ski]

You guys recon i can get rid of 1 amp and it will play as loud? and sorry to ask but which amp is better? the sony has lots of lovely buttons and dials and lights that i dont have a clue what they do.
... going to find a proper ground.

[Fat Audi 80]

First of all, can you confrim that the sound stops from ALL speakers when you have this fault or just the ones run by the amp??


Here are my thoughts on a revised system:

1.) Decide what you want to achieve with your system. It sounds as if you want is LOUD. Volume will come from the Sub(s), not the mid range. If it were me I would go back to one amp.

2.) I would also recommend that you amplify the FRONT speakers not the REARS. You will enjoy much improved sound quality and move the sound stage forwards so that the music sounds as if it is coming from the Dash board area.

3.) I would also consider adding some tweeters to the front setup. Or better still buy some dedicated component speakers although that is difficult with only 10cm speakers to play with in the dash.

4.) Once you have worked out what you want, rewire the system completely, (if you are still going to use two amps buy a distribution block.)

5.) Let us know the exact specs of your kit, head unit amps etc and we can help you set it all up. If you don't set the crossovers etc correctly it won't sound as good as it could.

Cheers,

Steve

[Ski]

First of all, can you confrim that the sound stops from ALL speakers when you have this fault or just the ones run by the amp??


Here are my thoughts on a revised system:

1.) Decide what you want to achieve with your system. It sounds as if you want is LOUD. Volume will come from the Sub(s), not the mid range. If it were me I would go back to one amp.

2.) I would also recommend that you amplify the FRONT speakers not the REARS. You will enjoy much improved sound quality and move the sound stage forwards so that the music sounds as if it is coming from the Dash board area.

3.) I would also consider adding some tweeters to the front setup. Or better still buy some dedicated component speakers although that is difficult with only 10cm speakers to play with in the dash.

4.) Once you have worked out what you want, rewire the system completely, (if you are still going to use two amps buy a distribution block.)

5.) Let us know the exact specs of your kit, head unit amps etc and we can help you set it all up. If you don't set the crossovers etc correctly it won't sound as good as it could.

Cheers,

Steve

Hey steve.

The exact specs are in my first post. Also I dont want to spend any more money on tweeters etc..

Ive upgraded the front speakers to kenwoods, and i can hear them max out if I push my vol loud enough, you think they still need running of the amp? sounds like im getting max volume out of them already.

in my diagram above, the rear speakers are the shelf speakers, big 350w'ers running from amp. the rear speakers that are in the passenger door pannel in the back are running form the headunit and i didnt put them into the diagram above.

my aim is simple : get system working and all speakers used to their capacity using what i got already.

just found another amp.. PII4240. might try this instead of the two amps im currently using, getting ready before I go out there again and rip everything out.

[Fat Audi 80]

Hey Ski,

You are right your specs are up there I just couldn't be arsed to surf the net to work out what they all do!

I hear what you are saying about the front speakers, however, if you use one of the amps and its crossover at 100 - 150Hz you will be able to play them at a higher volume with a clearer sound. The front speaker won't take the bass frequencies you are trying to drive them with at the moment.

Forget amping the speakers in the rear quarter panels and amp the front ones instead!

HTH

Cheers,

Steve

[Ski]

hmm.. my amp has a cross over feature (not figured it out yet) might give the fronts a go once i get the amps going.

[Fat Audi 80]

Ski, The cross over will probably be a HP Filter (High pass) which is for losing the bass frequencies - less than 150 Hz, and a LP Filter (Low Pass) which is for losing the Higher frequencies over 150 Hz. Sometimes they are adjustable with a small wheel or screw. You then set the type of filter for the channel you are using according to the speaker.

HP will be for the fronts
LP will for the Sub.

Cheers,

Steve.

[Ski]

Ski, The cross over will probably be a HP Filter (High pass) which is for losing the bass frequencies - less than 150 Hz, and a LP Filter (Low Pass) which is for losing the Higher frequencies over 150 Hz. Sometimes they are adjustable with a small wheel or screw. You then set the type of filter for the channel you are using according to the speaker.

HP will be for the fronts
LP will for the Sub.

Cheers,

Steve.

aaaa gr8 now i get it thanks for explination wil use that as reference later down the line.

but what i dont get is..

i got a totally diff amp, new live cable from batt, new earth cable, new earth source, connected remote and amp dont turn on, although there is power running through live, and remote. i just dont get it :/

yesturday it was intermittent, now its constantly off.