Bizarre Camber/Clearance Problem HELP

**Fat Audi 80** · 30 June 2006, 07:06

Edited because I can't read....

**Graham** · 30 June 2006, 07:41

Could the tie rod be fitted in back upside down I.E. fitted from the wrong side??, has the bottom ball joint been seated back to its proper position?, does the wheel run true or is there wobble? (bent hub or mis fit bearing), is the strut fastened back exactly in its original position?, is the strut top centered properly in the inner wing?, other than that there isnt much else you should have undone/disturbed, last things on the list could only be mis-fit/bent wishbones or damaged subframe, is it oem wheels or after market?, if after market do the wheels have a centering piece or a spacer missing?, (easily lost). I cannot see much else causing the camber to be out.
HTH
Graham

**coolhand** · 30 June 2006, 12:22

Thanks for the feedback Graham, the tie rods weren't removed at any point, neither the ball joints, the struts are correctly seated in QRS mounts, the subframe is spot on with alloy bushes, the wishbones are true, the wheels are the Porsche GT 3 cups in 18 x 8.5 which dont require any centering rings as they are an exact OEM mate, but as mentioned on first fitment/alignment, they did have very tight clearances with the tie rods due to the rid and tyre width, but it was the same on both sides, about 5 mm. The wheels haven't had any apparent hard knocks and are balancing fine with no at speed vibration at all.
The bearing clearances are the same on both sides from flange lip to hub face, my mechanic actually swapped the hub assemblies around for the purpose of checking the clearances and found that with the left hub on the right side, the clearance was the same as with the right side on the left,but, with the left on the left, the clearance is zero..

..go figure...as for the camber, it's possible that the camber is out due to some serious pothole/railcrossing wacks or otherwise, but none of this explains the reduced clearance other than that the bearings were changed...well I'm going batty

and think the next step is to try another bearing, maybe with a shim behind it, wheel spacers are illegal here anyway...

**Mikes2** · 30 June 2006, 13:12

How did the mechanic replace the wheel bearings without disturbing the ball joints ?

Were they replaced on the car without removing the housings.

**Graham** · 30 June 2006, 15:05

Originally posted by Mikes2

How did the mechanic replace the wheel bearings without disturbing the ball joints ?

Were they replaced on the car without removing the housings.

Hmmm? How did you get the driveshafts out without, as said, removing the ball joints as i think the strut will come out no problems but the hub will still not flex enough to allow removal of the driveshaft.
Unless you undone the wishbone bolts and removed hub and wishbone in one piece which is a bit of long way to go, or undone the driveshaft bolts and took the driveshaft completely out which is just as much of a ball ache.
I done my bearing in situ a few weeks ago and had to undo the ball joint from the hub, leaving it attached firmly to the wishbone to not adjust any settings.
Something must be wrong and i advise strongly against shimming the bearing at all, if it doesnt look right then there could be a potentialy dangerous fault being overlooked, and these cars aint cheap to fix and as that part is responsible for keeping you on the straight and narrow i think it best be put right.
Ask KarlblueS2 about getting it checked, i have some of the settings, but Karl done alot more with his S2, and will probably know more people in OZ who have a better working knowledge of these cars, i am sure he mentioned ages ago of a bloke in Melbourne who knew the S2 inside out. Give him a PM or summit
HTH
Graham *****Edited for presentation boss

**Jamo** · 30 June 2006, 15:14

Paragraphs people! please break up your posts so it's easier to read

**Fat Audi 80** · 30 June 2006, 18:12

@ Teacher Jamo.

Quite good - must try harder....

**newsh** · 30 June 2006, 22:27

Originally posted by Jamo

Paragraphs people! please break up your posts so it's easier to read

Now thats what I call a Moderator!

**Jamo** · 2 July 2006, 23:35

o.k o.k

it's one of my pet hates, trying to read a never ending post of words, especially in boss mode at work

**Graham** · 2 July 2006, 23:35

I'll put pictures in next time to make it a bit more comic book-esque boss

**Jamo** · 2 July 2006, 23:46

Originally posted by Graham

I'll put pictures in next time to make it a bit more comic book-esque boss

A bit of Manga never hurt anyone

**Graham** · 3 July 2006, 00:23

Originally posted by Jamo

A bit of Manga never hurt anyone

**coolhand** · 11 July 2006, 12:50

Ahem, excuse me teacher...

......after 4 visits to the mechanic and the wheel alignment mob, the problem camber/clearance was resolved in about 2 bloody minutes..

....I can't believe just how something this simple and obvious escaped 4 people highly qualified in their areas of expertise.
As previously mentioned I had a serious camber issue on one side after getting front wheel bearings replaced, the normal point of adjustment is at the ball joints, yet there was no further travel available in my case to give any more positive camber, however the two clearance bolts which hold the stud axle/hub assembly on are standard machine bolts ( and thus slightly undersize, otherwise you'd need to hammer them in )...this minute clearance was entirely responsible for the degree of incorrect camber and also provided the extra clearance which had mysteriously disappeared.
Each time the stud axles came off whilst trying to locate a possible issue, they ended up back on ever so slightly differently positioned, and this small difference accounted for the wacky camber and handling variations I was experiencing, more so on the passenger side for some reason.
It's compounded by my wide wheels and directional tyres.
In my case the trick was to ensure that the axle assembly was forced down by simply wedging a jimmy bar in at the top between the strut housing and the meeting point of the axle assembly, whilst tightening up the bolts.
I think that this may not be a well known thing to many and I certainly learnt quite alot here with regards to wheel alignment and geometry whilst puzzling over this dilemma, what appears to be an insignificantly tiny amount of play in the areas of steering/hubs/struts etc..and their anchoring points to each other, can have a profound impact !
Now I can appreciate even more, the precise nature and countless factors of chassis, brake and suspension tuning which affect the likes of F1 cars etc...
For me it's been about six months of replacing many parts with custom components and focussing on nothing more than optimising the three key factors I mentioned above to elevate the S2's road holding abilities and dynamics to a level where I can track the car with some measure of confidence, whilst still using it as an occasional week day driver.
Thanks largely to several people who I've "met" this forum, I feel that it's finally all systems go !
Stage two: 500HP engine rebuild is in the works....bring it on

**Mikes2** · 11 July 2006, 16:42

This is precisely why the strut and wheel bearing housing should be removed from the car as one assembly.

The workshop manual specifically highlights that camber will be affected if the bolts securing the wheel bearing housing to the strut are undone.

Bizarre Camber/Clearance Problem HELP