Polyflex for Audi S2 91 (3B)

[larsaskogstad]

Hi.

Scrolled and search through the forum for some answers but the posts were a bit old.

Just wondering if anyone have suggestions on what to change within bushings on a used up Audi s2 1991 (3B) ?

Are there any differences in this "era" between the cars or is it the same on all cars from the 1991?

Is there anything that should be left original instead of using polybushes or alu bushings? Like rear diff bushing?

Noticed that https://www.driftshop.com/powerflex-...-coupe-b3.html , had a good overview over different bushings needed.


Sorry if its covered in this forum before,



- Lars

[Greg_S]

Hey, for wishbone bushes changing to poly does increase noise transmission. For wishbones checkout the super flex ones. My car was used in developing the power Flex ones many years back and I still get squeaks from. Them even after changing them 4 times for different designs.

[larsaskogstad]

So alu for subframe, polyflex for the rest and wishbone from superflex? would that be an okay combination probably?

[sal_s2]

Your subframe bushes will be the earlier type with the m10 bolt holes rather than the later m12 I believe
Has anyone fitted the powerflex subframe bushes? I have the aluminium ones currently and was wondering if there is any difference in vibration or road noise

[k.alle]

I have PowerFlex subframe bushes.
I can't really give them an honest evaluation since I changed a lot of other bits at the same time.
Fitted the Meyle HD on the wishbones.
But for me engine mounts + snub and rear diff bushing seems to transmitt the most vibration / noise, that's what it "feels like" at least.

Im also running 19" rims and Koni's with H&R springs so it is a firm ride to begin with.

[Monkeymagic]

I run black powerflex polys throughout, with the exception of the rear diff mount which is purple. I'm on KW coilovers with a "rusty" snub mount. My car is firm but not crash. I have to drive up and down country lanes and the car is fine. But then she's not a daily.

[larsaskogstad]

I run black powerflex polys throughout, with the exception of the rear diff mount which is purple. I'm on KW coilovers with a "rusty" snub mount. My car is firm but not crash. I have to drive up and down country lanes and the car is fine. But then she's not a daily.

Was thinking about that regarding diff mount, not sure if I would like that one in too hard poly..
How is the vibration from engine etc?

[larsaskogstad]

I have PowerFlex subframe bushes.
I can't really give them an honest evaluation since I changed a lot of other bits at the same time.
Fitted the Meyle HD on the wishbones.
But for me engine mounts + snub and rear diff bushing seems to transmitt the most vibration / noise, that's what it "feels like" at least.
Im also running 19" rims and Koni's with H&R springs so it is a firm ride to begin with.

Yeah I was looking into the Meyle HD ones, are they better than others since many people run them?

[Monkeymagic]

Tbh the car is a lot better. I still get drive train shunt if I'm not sympathetic with the clutch but it's stopped all the unwanted movement. The car is a lot more planted as speed and on the twisty stuff. The rear diff mount Is easy to swap though. I have the old alloy bracket and at some point will put an oe rubber in there so can try it compared to powerflex.

[Monkeymagic]

I also have poly front top mounts which really took away some of the slop in the steering

[k.alle]

Yeah I was looking into the Meyle HD ones, are they better than others since many people run them?

I don't know honestly, at the time I found them to be a good option and has held up well I guess.
I am thinking of switching to poly bushes on the wishbones and getting a KW v1 setup instead of Koni + H&R.

I also have poly front top mounts which really took away some of the slop in the steering

Did you get those from Alex?

[Lago Blue]

larsaskogstad ,

Good questions re B3 chassis (4 x MacP. struts) bushings and mount options, I don't know if or when any of the last Coupes' may have changed to the B4 type (early Audi A4 / B5 style) rear suspension, my previous assumptions where wrong and clearly even in 1996, some cars still had 4 x MacP. struts. Someone reading this will know the if there was any change-over point.

Applicable A-arm bushing type depends on the A-arms you will mount, best to eye-ball or measure yours if you are unfamiliar. You'll need to know if you require large or small OD bushings and how many. IIRC, all the pressed arms front and rear use small OD bushings. Most forged arms use 2 large OD bushings each, but not quite all.

We are fortunate to have choices and I have 2 applicable widgets to flog so of course my reco's are slanted towards those and my preferences. I do think some of the originals should be kept that way and would prefer poly just for the non-rotational bits if I could. As these original joints and mounting points are simply good empirical engineering and can provide in my view, a most desirable driving character, by keeping all of them as the slightly flexible connective tissue of the chassis, overall my aim would be to simply strengthen them; but not solidify them.

The list of possibly tired bushings / mounts etc. for your car might include but is not limited to (my reco's and next choices in brackets):

Front:
Snub mount (I have a big fat soft poly that is unfortunately NLA, however there may be other brands suitable)
Front tie-rod inner bushes (I've originals, but will try a purple poly here next);
A-arm bushes (large OD Boge OEMs with "Arm-Stops");
Strut top-mounts (Boge OEMs with "Strut-Stops");
Sub-frame mounting bushes (I've originals, but will try polys here next);
Tranny mounts (Audi All-Roads);
Steering column flex disc (original);
ARB mount bushes (originals);
ARB link bushes, if "old" style (poly);

Rear:
A-arm bushes (small OD Boge OEMs with "Arm-Stops");
Strut top-mounts (as fronts);
Sub-frame mounting bushes (as fronts);
L & RH side rear diff mounts (Error404's suggestion of 911/930 mounts may suit here);
Center diff mount for rear diff (I have a purple poly one here, but will try an OEM VW 16V with poly added to it next);
Track-rod inner bushes (mine are OEM, but Error404 makes a nice non-OEM replacement I want to try here next)
ARB mount bushes (originals);

If not already on your car, my reco to anyone would be forged arms up front, if just to allow the use of the later / larger OD stock OEM Boge dealer-supplied A-arm bushings. The significantly larger physical cubic volume (and hence strength and resilience) of these later bushings makes them a worthwhile upgrade from the smaller earlier type. The stock bushes are silent, the dealer-sourced Boge's are known for durability to start with; and I make "Arm-Stops" to further reinforce them in particular.

Similarly, you may prefer OEM Boge top-mounts together in combination with what "Strut-Stops" have to offer.

[larsaskogstad]

Thank you for your message Okay, so I'll guess I will just drop the subframe down and measure before ordering at least since there are some varieties out there.

I would guess it will also depend a bit on tire choice as well when it comes to vibration,noise,etc.

[Lago Blue]

Lars,

Dropping the sub-frame may disturb your alignment. The sub-frame bush hole size will likely be as Sal described above. You may also want to locate a shop that has happy S2 alignment customers, and who can and will re-align the sub-frames properly. The A-arm bush sizing can be done by just looking at them.

If you have not yet experienced how really good restored to new stock condition can actually be, if this is a regular plated street-driven car, a commuter car, even an occasional track-driven car, you may not want to make it potentially too unforgiving (via low-profile tires, lowering springs, stiffer dampers and bushes etc.). With the now recent government expenditures, road repairs may now fall to the bottom of their list for quite some time to come. Plenty of forum folk have reversed course back towards very near to the stock equipment for the sake of their kidneys and real-world driving enjoyment. Perhaps best try to get a ride in someone's car who has done something your considering.

If it was me starting over, I'd want to be doing the most cost-effective and logical next things in order to build steadily towards something increasingly more enjoyable without going too far. So perhaps in terms of chassis renewal, something like as follows:

Unless there are some obvious reasons to replace other items first (all the below needs to be at least satisfactory to start), re-new these in this order (some of the below may be fine depending on the maintenance history of your car so you may want to get the manual out and inspect these items in advance:
a) Top-mounts, fronts then rear;
b) A-arm bushes, fronts then rear;
c) Inner tie-rod / track-rod bushes, fronts then rear;
d) Get a total alignment;
e) Get some new stock sized tires;
f) Tranny mounts;
g) Snub mount;
h) Center mount for rear diff;
i) L & RH mounts for rear diff;
j) Flex-coupling in steering column?
k) Sub-frame bushes (unless obviously failed, yours may be fine for years to come!);
l) Engine mounts?

Along the way, while driving, consider the condition of your current dampers and do you want to simply replace them prior to your alignment, or save that for a another time (my reco would be get yellow Bilsteins for your stock struts).

The above will get you back to new in terms of all the soft joints of the car, and provide a very good basis from which you may (or may not!) wish to go further. By that time you will have a much better idea of what you might want next.

[larsaskogstad]

Lago Blue:

The plan was to change everything, I have never experienced a s2 in mint condition over here. The roads aren't particulary that bad around the area where I live. The car will not be used for track days, might try it maybe some time but it's a car I am trying to get road legal with every mods I've planned.
I want to start with everything within chassi and suspenspion first, never had an old car that has been totally refreshed to "new". Always had some wear and tear here and there and a bit too much focus on the engine and exterior.

The plan was first going for kw v1 or v3, but I'm thinking that I want to go for the H&R CupKit 50/50. Was thinkig meyle hd for top struts.
I like the ride on 17" so I think I will go for just some 215/45-17 or maybe a bit wider in the 17".

The car has currently some subframe alu bishings and some random changed bushes to poly and some really bad original bushings..
It feels really messed up and I doubt the ones changed the bushins has done a four wheel alignment properly at a shop since the steering wheel is a bit off.
I don't mind vibration and noise that much but I guess it might be annoying in the long run.

Was concidering sandblasting and repainting the parts that can and press new polyflex bushings where it's possible and use maybe Lemförder for the rest.
Maybe engine mounts and diff mounts in somewhat softer setting to maybe reduce some noise/vibration.

The car I bought is not a car for showrooms as it is. Got it for apprix 1/3 of the listing prices in Norway, Engine, transmission , drivetrain seems okay, not that much rust, only outside. Going to be a project over time but I wanted to get started on the bottom of the car before anything else. It also has the usual boost leaks, bad plugs etc. that non maintained cars have but that will come later on.

Thanks for the replies guys, much appreciated.