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Wanted: Volunteers to test product to aid front strut-mounts.

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  • Wanted: Volunteers to test product to aid front strut-mounts.

    Suspension of Disbelief, Part 2.b.

    Seeking volunteers to test add-on suspension product made by fellow member.

    Product is an attempt to approach the functionality of Mance Etheredge's original and renowned "Mount-Saver" product.

    Following product purchase at a reduced price, testing will involve sending separate private up-dates back to the maker re:
    a.) Installation;
    b.) Initial driving impressions; & and
    c.) Short & longer term milestones at 100, 500, & 1500 kms., and finally at 6 to 9 months out.

    Reduced price offered reflects that maker is asking for participants' help in testing it; and that the product is being made available for that purpose.

    Please also see previously > here < at link.

    Thanks.
    Last edited by Lago Blue; 17th October 2018, 16:22.

  • #2
    I'm interested, I've tried just about every mount available, and rebuilt my mance mounts a couple of times to keep them going so i have a good basis to compare them against. http://www.s2forum.com/forum/showthr...ighlight=mount
    91CQ20v - Gone to a new home
    93UR-S4 - The Magic Carpet
    94S2Bus - The Emerald Express

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    • #3
      I'd b happy to help on this and never got as far as a Mance solution but have tried pretty much everything else.
      sigpic

      1992 3b S2 Coupe

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      • #4
        PMs sent.

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        • #5
          Wanted: More Volunteers

          Progress Report:

          My tester has put some months and miles onto these and is happy enough that I would like to repeat my invitation to interested others who might also want to participate. He has passed the period required for the mounts to settle which can take quite some time/distance when they have been reinforced with this mod.

          LB

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          • #6
            i would have some interest

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            • #7
              RXL,

              PM sent.

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              • #8
                What was the outcome of these tests?

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                • #9
                  Nuvo,

                  Thanks for prompting me to do an update with your query. I'm happy to say that despite very limited uptake, "Strut-Stops" have been independently used very quietly & successfully to date. I will come back and add to this quick post below this line when time permits.

                  Added Testing Summary:
                  a) Prevention of Vertical Collapse:
                  Where used, the subject product inserts, installed into brand new top-mounts (i.e. strictly the latest OEM Boge/Sachs V6 versions (not the cheapest, just the strongest OEM mount & perhaps best dealer sourced) have prevented the mounts from collapsing. For some folks, this may be all they need/want to know, or have time for.

                  b) Reduction in Maintenance:
                  What of course follows from the above is that none of the mounts run with the subject product inserts installed have had to be replaced. The significance of this change will not be lost on those who have despaired at the required frequency of this chore previously.

                  c) Total Time & Distance in Use:
                  The lead tester has been running these since Oct 2016. At May 2017, he had approximately12k miles on them. From my own experience, I know this is certainly more than enough time & distance for the mounts to fully settle into a steady-state condition, where further physical changes are unlikely.

                  d) Further Expected Effects Not Yet Observed &/or Lacking Feedback On:
                  What I have not yet received comment on is the presence (or absence) of any dynamic mod benefit(s). What is meant here is particularly in the driving of the car, i.e. steering feel while cornering, straight-line stability and the transition between those two, beyond just the above static mechanical improvements; longer term. This is perhaps in part because, the extent to which the fitness state of mounts has its effects in how well both the steering and suspension systems best function, is not well understood; and will just take longer to be fully recognized. However, IMHO it is precisely here where I think this mod, which simply adds some resistance, subtracts some compliance, but most notably nets a more resilient OEM mount & appears to keep it that way; really pays off. Time will tell if others pick up on this. Eventually, beyond these driving benefits, a third group of improvements may also be noted, enhanced alignment durability and improved tire wear among them.

                  e) Other Factors:
                  Careful readers of other threads on this subject may recognize another factor which may serve to mask observable dynamic improvements after doing just this mod alone. This may be due to unrecognized mechanical issues elsewhere affecting steering, particularly with the OEM A-arm bushes. The cause of, and cure for, about which I've written at length, is remarkably similar in both fault origin & fix, to this mod but most notably; quite complementary to it after that repair. Depending on your point of view, that can be either depressing or exciting to know there's yet more work to do &/or enhancement to be had!

                  Lastly, no one has asked for their money back and for the time being, due to limited up-take, I continue to offer them at the "testing" price (even though any need for further testing, save for perhaps competition use, is unlikely), as I'd still like to see more sets out there. My reason for this is quite simple. At some point someone else will talk about their experience (of which I am quite confident will be good) with these and then perhaps - I - won't have to; quite so much. We can only hope.

                  Lago
                  Last edited by Lago Blue; 1st May 2018, 02:56.

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                  • #10
                    A recent "Strut-Stop" tester and forum member's comments:

                    On install:

                    ("After a 50 mile commute today...") "Onto driving impressions;
                    As you quite rightly predicted, a much quieter ride. Actually, a marked difference and I’m more than happy with it. On turn-in, again a noticeable difference. Steering response is much sharper and it actually feels like there is more mechanical grip when you’re both entering and are in the corner. Even slight tweaks to the steering wheel mid corner now result in a change of direction that is more precise and it feels like the car responds faster to the input. Again, very happy with how It feels – a notable increase in agility."

                    At 200 miles:

                    "I've measured the C/W ("cupped washers" -edit) gaps again tonight. They've settled by another 1mm with the same change on the wheel to arch measurement. Removed C/W's to inspect; I'm now resting on the ("Strut-Stops"). I could tell they'd bottomed out when I was driving today. Feels somewhere between fresh mounts and collapsed ones, if that makes sense. Still sharp on the steering but a bit ' dead ' over bumpy surfaces."

                    Q.: "Dead" in a welcome or an unwelcome way? Is it uncomfortable?

                    " 'Dead' does indeed mean well damped and welcomed - akin to a dead blow hammer. It's not at all uncomfortable and I reckon it's still feels as positive and direct on turn in as a fresh mount would be. The current difference only being the more solid feel over bumpy stuff when comparing to fresh mounts without ("Strut-Stops")."

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                    • #11
                      When will these be available to buy my car won’t be seeing th

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                      • #12
                        Hello F/U,
                        Strut-mount aid kits are available. PM sent.

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                        • #13
                          Looking back at top-mount failures and their replacement cost through the simple lens of economics...

                          Theory:

                          I'll begin by humbly offering a simple definition: economics = money, divided by time.

                          Consider that one (theoretical) contributing factor why most mounts fail early, is that we as a group; keep buying mostly; poor ones. We encourage the makers in their mediocrity. They just make even more, still poor ones, but now even more cheaply due to our on-going en masse encouragement. In this race to the bottom, most mounts don't get a lot better (your mount can't be a "best seller" if it's not failing often!). If most of us bought only the best performing one, some of the poorer ones might be made better, but we are not as a group that well organized.

                          Individually we are often not thoughtful enough to be invulnerable to the tyranny of the lowest price. Most makers recognize this and that low price-point built items with volume sales are easier to achieve profits with, than fewer sales of technically excellent product not requiring replacement. Every day, boat-loads of entirely waste-of-time top-mounts beckon, many are superceeded items banished to E-bay, often described as "best sellers", some under-identified, maybe mis-labelled or even packaged as "OEM", perhaps including your next pair? Until you choose, it's just theory though.

                          Practice:

                          Many missed out on the original Mount-Savers because they were judged to be "too expensive". Perhaps they weren't? Simple idea, take the technically best mount and keep it as near to new as possible; long-term. I'm sorry but most likely your current un-aided even true OEM mounts are "toast", or fated to be very shortly. Please dispose of your used parts (again) in an environmentally responsible manner. In the future, as an alternative you may like to experience how to not have to need to replace them nearly so often; if at all. There's a practice you could live without repeating.

                          This month I've got eleven years on my original and NLA Mount-Savers, the mounts are still fine thank you.

                          These newer "Strut-Stops", while not identical to Mount-Savers are cheap and effective so far (two years now since introduced). One tester (former Mount-Saver user) has said they're the next logical evolution of the idea. Even if they only last half as long as Mount-Savers; and despite that they're for only the most expensive OEMs you're likely to find, the payback on your time and principal spent; would still be favourable.

                          Not to mention, they'll pass the "TUV" (or your local version of it) repeatedly, fit and undetected, the improved handling, the avoided costs in re-alignments, the better control of tire wear and the enduring comfort and quiet of new stock mounts; kept that way.

                          Lastly, consider that even if you do your own work and don't put a value on your own time; as soon as you've avoided one forced mount replacement, you likely got all your extra money back. Every day that goes by, mine are still getting cheaper. A most economical mount? May be, it's just theory mind you.






                          Last edited by Lago Blue; 29th September 2018, 20:02.

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                          • #14
                            So, these are available now. What is the cost please?
                            Do they fit the rear strut mounts also and should/can they be used there?
                            Audi 90 quattro (Typ 85)
                            20v turbo conversion

                            sigpic

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                            • #15
                              Jogi,

                              Yes (from the external ad linked to in post #1 above), since July 2016, for the interim still reduced to 30 bucks Cdn / pair and I pay postage, both for a little while longer yet (see post #9 above).

                              The ad photo (have you seen it?) shows product installed inside the mount cavity, so If you're thinking the rear of your B2Q, I'm thinking it must be set up just like a B3Q sedan where front and rear strut-mounts are the same part; so yes.

                              I think what rear-mounted "Strut-Stops" alone contribute (beyond preserving the mounts) is, you should notice improved straight-line stability and the back end will feel like it more precisely trails the front, as:
                              a) the new top-mounts required will of course be slightly stiffer than used ones; but also
                              b) the "Stops" will, by limiting internal mount vertical travel, cause the springs and dampers to be activated sooner than stock, reducing roll slightly and hastening initial steering response right when you begin to turn the wheel. This change should also be felt in improved cross-wind resistance.

                              I think the reason that this small change to the back end is felt at the front, is that it is far from the car's forward biased C of G, so it has some leverage; and hence a tangible positive effect on the steering stability and response.
                              Last edited by Lago Blue; 26th August 2018, 15:47. Reason: clarity

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