top mounts, top mounts, top mounts

[Solfella]

Sachs 802 453 has apparently been replaced by 803 519 but I don't know what the implications are of that. Along with many informative posts on this forum, Lago Blue was extremely helpful and provided lots of information when I was looking into acquiring Strut Stops and which top mounts they would work with. I now have a set of Strut and Arm stops, waiting to be installed when I get around to it. I would reach out to him if you are interested.

[Alburglar]

The arm stops look like washers that take the lateral movement out suspension arms. A good idea, again self admittedly borrowed the idea off someone else.
We really shouldn't be shipping washers round the world lads.

[Alburglar]

Lago blue developed these mount savers and is a member here. I have fitted several sets and never had a problem or a failure since. It would be morally wrong to copy them, especially as Lago sells them for a very reasonable price to fellow Forum members. I suggest you contact him and order a set. I see no reason why they wouldn't work with the new Sachs version of the mount or the Lemforder version.

I disagree.
A) that's what forums for old cars are for. Information sharing.
B) that is exactly where he got the idea from when he started making them.
C) it's just a ring of metal plastic and his posts said he couldn't guarantee they would fit any other mounts apart from the ones which are NLA in the UK, or I'd have bought them already.

[Alburglar]

Washers

[Alburglar]

Others have achieved the same thing by fitting the B3 bushes with the lumpy ends. Both seem like a good idea.

[K Simmonds]

I disagree.
A) that's what forums for old cars are for. Information sharing.
B) that is exactly where he got the idea from when he started making them.
C) it's just a ring of metal plastic and his posts said he couldn't guarantee they would fit any other mounts apart from the ones which are NLA in the UK, or I'd have bought them already.

I'm inclined to agree, I don't see a problem coping ideas and making ones own parts if you've got the tools etc, producing them for sale however would be unethical...

That said Lago Blue has put a lot of time into them and they're not very expensive, I've fitted a couple of sets, have them on the front of my RS2 and keep a set in stock and am yet to encounter an OE spec top mount they don't fit.

I'm interested to see how you get on with the poly ones, I ran Compbrake top mounts on my 3B for a year or so before going back to stock and they weren't that harsh compared to using solid alloy subframe bushes which are horrid on a road car. I found the best set up for all road conditions including gravel tracks to be road density poly bushes everywhere, stock springs and either standard wheels and tyre's or 225/45/17's on 7.5J rims if you don't intend on taking the car on illicit night rally driving.

[Alburglar]

...producing them for sale however would be unethical...

....said the mount savers bloke to Lago blue. LOL

I'm really not looking to muscle in on the mounts anyone else makes for sale. Nor pick a fight with anyone over this. The fella has done all the legwork in measurements and producing his versions. But seeing as both the top mounts and arm mounts are copied, somewhat evolved version, of other people's original ideas. Then any idea of 'owner ship' of that idea is a contradiction.
The arm stops are inexpensive washers, to order either in poly or nylon.
However, Unless I have the materials lying around, in the workshop already, I doubt I could produce the mount savers (strut savers) for much less than he sells them, even with the shipping.

Well done Lago on putting those bits together and selling them for people's convenience. If I'd have figured it out I would have gone one step further and told the world the measurements, saving people the headache of figuring it out. But that's just me...
#RubbishBusinessMan

[Alburglar]

...I'll be honest though. If I use the rubber mounts, I'm thinking those crappy yellow and black ebay strut bushes, that take the slop out of worn top mounts, must fit the internal ID of the top washer cap already and would be easily turned down to fit inside whatever mount you have. And they are a tenner for four. Stainless washer shims can be bought in various sizes for the top ring.

[JariP]

Lagoblues mount savers are a copy of Mance mounts. So who did the work and copied who? I still have an unused set from Mance, I can give you the measurements from those. They use a combination of aluminium and hard polyurethane ring. As I need some kind of mount savers for two more cars, I'm thinking of 3D printing a set from hard TPU. That stuff is quite hard wearing with high infill.

I thought the poly mounts won't fit Audi's. Someone tested and posted the results here years ago.

[Alburglar]

Excellent, yes please. If you have measurements, then I can get on with it. Mounts are coming from autodoc, so who knows when they'll get here.

[Alburglar]

.. They're here!
Well if you added a bearing and I turned the poly mounts down in a lathe for height and width. They would be do-able, but I think the mount savers and OEM top mounts are the way forward.
Essentially the poly mounts are filled in and solid where the top washer cap sits, which is the same affect as the mount savers.

[Lago Blue]

Hi All,

Good discussion as usual. Thanks again to Tractor Dave for prompting me re this topic. I'll be brief (or is that brief for a Lago Blue post perhaps?), as I'm in bed with the flu.

I'll post a longer if repetitive response on the thread above that Solfella linked to at some point, to keep the bulk of that info all in one place.

Mance Etheridge to whom we're all indebted (RIP 2026) produced his last versions of Mount-Savers (till about 2007/8?) when he fell ill, and I've been making Strut-Stops after I wrote to him to tell him my intentions, (since about 2015?). I only ever had (few may remember) Mance's original cast mount-savers, which by themselves weren't as durable as his later models. One happy customer described my version as a logical evolution of Mance's later design.

One cannot take the slack out of worn OEM top-mounts no matter what one simply adds to their re-installation, as once worn; they are done.

Once one grasps how the OEM mounts actually function on the front of the car, attempts at "correcting the slack" (the visible gap that grows as the mounts collapse) between the painted top surface of the inner fender's dome through which the strut's end protrudes, and the large black plastic-rimmed cupped-steel strut retainer-washer that floats above the fender, by filling that space; will be understood as folly.

The poly top-mount idea may certainly work, but it may not be any "better" or cheaper than an OEM top-mount plus a mount-saver such as Strut-Stops.

The why of not publishing detailed product dimensions etc., is as follows. What will work with the mounts I reco, will not likely work with others outside the ZF family. There are so many brands and models; and their interior dimensions (let alone strengths and durability etc.) vary. For instance, I happen to know the Febi's interior space was larger.

The design changes and choices I made for both Strut and Arm Stops were to provide easily accessible, safe, cheap and as close to a permanent solutions as possible.

Use of the Strut-Stops in other than the reco'd mounts may result in damage to the Stops which is only unfortunate, but note that it may also result in them interfering with the steering. Mance had this issue. So I am disinclined to share the details. Yes, the tooling to not just produce the parts but to do all change-outs quickly and testing was considerable, but for those so inclined, better for everyone that they go through their own process of experimentation. For me it's more than just caveat emptor.

The Sachs 803 519 mentioned above is unfamiliar to me but IIRC, it may be the lessor of the two mounts they used to list in their print catalog for our cars? I'll try to find that out.

If I had to hazard a guess as to which top-mounts currently available from a major senior supplier (whose quality I trust), that would most likely be properly compatible with Strut-Stops, if the Boge 88-787-A and Sachs 802 453 I've reco'd are NLA (I don't see either currently listed at their sites, which is both sad and news to me) and out of stock with vendors, and outside of the list of Boge's that one could go back down through from the latest version, which is in post #40 in that same thread mentioned above, it would be from TRW, also now part of ZF. In particular P/N JSB4290S.

https://aftermarket.zf.com/en/aftermarket-portal/our-catalog/search-by-vehicle/#/article/JSB4290S?languageID=4&brandID=161&countryID=CDN

I look forward to your replies.

[Alburglar]

Lago, if your strut savers will fit TRW JSL104, I'll buy a set. As that is a tried and tested route.
That will be way less faff than trying to make my own.
The easiest way to figure that out, would be measurements.
Do you think they'll work with TRW JSL104?

I don't mind sending you the measurements from these mounts, if you aren't keen on sharing the measurements of your strut-savers. Just tell me what you need. I have Vernier calipers, so can be pretty accurate.

[Crasher]

TRW list the JSL 104 to replace

811 412 323
811 412 323 B
811 412 323 C
811 412 323 D
811 412 355
811 412 365
857 412 323 A
857 412 323 B
8A0 412 323 B
8A0 412 323 D


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