Suspension Advice

[Sonic]

So i started out with stock suspension on my coupe, nice and soggy, but comfy!

I then went to H&R's with Bilsteins, quite a change, but very impressive none-the-less.

The change was dramatic, but the car cornered like it was on rails which was great at the nurburgring. The problem is that the roads are so **** that the car is almost undrivable on normal roads unless you want to damage your spine and the car.

One of the Bilstein dampers let go anyway, so i took them off the car and thought it would be best to replace them with Koni adjustable dampers. This, i thought, would give me the best of both worlds - good stability and corner capability on track and a softer setup for the road.

I was wrong.

The car on the Koni's is now MORE crashy than it was on the bilsteins, and i've done more damage due to the road surface in a couple of months than i did in a couple of years on the Bilsteins.

I suspect this is down to the springs bring so low, that they just fully compress and bottom out when you hit the smallest bump, as the entire weight of the car is on the springs.

So... what do i do? I'm of the mind that's i'd prefer something that is road drivable. I plan to get the Bilsteins refurbished anyway, but figure i might have to change the springs.

What do people suggest?

[TimE-J]

I know what you mean with H&R;s and koni shocks being "crashy", i'll be interested to know what people also think.

[gripper]

Funnily enough someone on another site told me when I asked a similar question, don't lower it ! Simply stick with the standard springs but get hold of the best shocks you can buy !
I was going to go down the H&R and Koni route till I found out my H&R's were not
Now Ive been told standard springs and Bilsteins !

Unless you stump up fo coilovers.

[A80Avant]

i would suggest the same. Standard springs and bilsteins is what i have on the car all along. Not brilliant on cornering, but definitelly best of both worlds. Alternativelly, i would say bilsteins and custom springs, so that you get less than 3mm drop that you get with the HR

[Tonks4x4]

I agree to standard springs and billy's :thumbs

[Error404]

what "damage" have you done Andy? I'm running H&Rs and Konis on mine and really happy with it, find it pretty comfy actually
Although my chassis is a bit stiffer than stock with the bracing and stich welding - i think that makes the suspension work harder since I find it less "crashy" now than when it was running ABY springs & shocks

[Acidburn]

I loved the koni's and stock springs on mine and have been out in a car with koni's and hnr's and found that fine

agree tho, billy's and hnr's is hospital treatment

[Fat Audi 80]

I agree to standard springs and billy's :thumbs

Mine is on the same set up as Brian and although it can float occasionally and it would look a little better lowered, I can attack country lanes at 90 or 100mph without it bottoming out or crashing...

I feel lowering the car would enhance the looks a little but ruin the point to point speed of the car completely.

Cheers,

Steve.

[newsh]

I'm on stock springs and Konis on the coupe. One turn from soft at the front and half a turn at the back

Best of both worlds and quicker in the wet than a stiffer setup

[Rusty]

Having tried a few things myself there are 2 things here. Road comfort and performance. Unfortunately, due to the small number of options for the S2 you're unlikely to get both from any setup.

Konis and stock springs were quite crashy if you wound the dampers up (+1.5F +1.0R) to give a good change of direction. This was combined with roll in longer corners so wasn't really great for track but worked OK on the road and was an improvement on stock dampers for performance driving. When loaded up on track it was OK, change of direction required forward planning.

HnRs with Konis wound up further (+0.5F +0.5R) works well on all but the bumpiest road and is purposeful so I can forgive the ride, it's not much worse than on stock with the Konis as above.

All stock will be nice and plush and at least you'll accept it's not a track star. The ring is bumpy so I doubt it'll show itself up too much.

Next are the areas you might not have thought of, namely wheels and tyres, brakes and ARBs.

Your 18s will kill the ride, especially on sudden impacts! Also, your Nuvolari reps will weigh 24kg min, over 5kg heavier per corner than stock Avus. This will play havoc with your undprung mass and as a result the ride will get worse as the spring and damper can't control the wheel as well.

Your brakes are upgraded front and rear. 365mm stoppers might look good and work well but they're seriously heavier than stock or say 314s, 280/300mm rears will weigh more too, a double hit on unsprung mass and thus ride. I'd estimate you're 10kg heavier per front corner than a stock car, that's a lot, 6-7kg rear too! This will also seriously affect performance. Some 20kg wheels will make the car feel much faster in the lower gears and ride & handle better! 5% on my 0-60 times going from 23kg/corner to 19kg.

Finally ARBs affect ride too. Big ARBs that are good for level cornering also remove axle articulation and thus ride quality... RS2 & Whiteline on yours? My 25mm rear bar is truly awful but I love the positive effect on handling so would go bigger still now I've track tested it with sticky rubber - S2 FARB, 26mm.

Afraid you've built a car for the track in terms of chassis hardware so it's going to ride like a track car. Changing one component will make a small change but as above, in most areas (except wheels) you have chosen performance parts and all items mentioned above remove ride quality so it'll take a few changes to add up to what it sounds like you want...

HTH

[rj scotty]

When I was looking for an s2 I drove two examples running 18" wheels and hated them, crashed around, tramlined all over the place not good. Then I drove and subsequently brought an example running 17" rims, much better. I know there are other factors involved hear but in my limited experience 17's work much better on the s2 than 18's.

cheers

rich

[Sonic]

Cheers for the info lads, Rusty especially, sounds like you know the car as well as i do

You are of course absolutely spot on, and i realise i've actually ended up with a pretty well track-spec'd car that i now want to be perfect on the road. Funny as that was never the aim, infact quite the opposite. This is what the for-sale section does to you

The problem is i'm so far down the road that going back would mean a considerable amount of work.

I'm tied into 18" alloys with the brakes. I don't mind changing suspension before 'ring trips, and as you say the reps as well heavy.

The Koni's on my setup are worse than the bilsteins, i can try changing the adjustment on them, they are about 1 turn from hardest, but at the moment i'm thinking of getting the bilsteins refurbed and fitted.

That, or put the stock springs back on, and put the H&Rs on when heading to the 'ring.

Thing is i don't mind the s2 being a more track-orientated car, but at the moment it's at the point where i don't actually want to drive it because it's so bad on the roads, which is crazy.

I've got a head rebuild on the cards, along with finally having the wagner EM fitted and the RS2 exhaust cam, and some bodywork, but it looks like i need to put some serious thought into the suspension.

[Rusty]

I think the following might be worth a go:-

• Fit stock springs.
• Wind the Konis out a bit, say +2F +1.5R.
• Get some light wheels in 18x8 (TD PR 1.2 / OZ Ultraleggera / BBS RK etc.)
• Fit a stock 26mm or even a 25mm FARB but keep the RS2 for track.
  (not that I believe it improves handling).u
• t the Whiteline on soft (can go hard for track).
• Consider downgrading to 323 996 425/6 or 345 996 429/30 brakes to allow 17s with 225/45R17 (lighter, more compliant and more forgiving on cambered or rutted roads).

J[\list]ust m 2p HTH

[VAP]

There's another option available to the European market that while doable in the states, comes at the additional cost of of BBSE's (Big-Bore Strut Extenders) but is P-N-P for you guys without BBSE's as your strut housings aren't swaged-down on the fronts, forcing you to use smaller-bore strut offerings.

It consists of using the "front" UrS Bilstein Sport or HD series struts in the front and/or rears of the B3 chassis cars, ie; sedans and coupes with OEM or aftermarket sport/lowering springs of your choice without doing a coilover conversion. They can also be used in the front of the B4 chassis. This matches perfectly with the concept posted above of "using the best struts money can buy with the OEM or aftermarket sport/lowering springs." In an 800-1,000lb lighter car the UrS struts tend to behave more like a well/mannered, re-valved Motorsport Bilstein but the lifetime warranty isn't compromised in the process. And the UrS Bilsteins are a straight-up-tit-for-tat swap into the Front/Rear 55mm B3 strut housings and/or the front B4 strut housings. Think of them as an RS2/S2 Bilstein that's pre-valved for a heavier car which allows them to work easier and with less accompanying heat which brings more control to the smaller chassis when driven hard, but remains compliant enough for daily-driver duty on oft-times bad pavement without the normal spine-compressing harshness of Konis or coilovers with heavy spring-sets.

Now with that said, there is a caveat, ie; those wanting to do this will have to find a work-around on their strut-mounts and upper spring perches. Spring perch requires drilling, boring or milling its 14mm dia bore to 17mm. No OEM strut-mount with a 14mm thrust bearing will accept the UrS strut with its 17mm shoulder just under the threads at the top of the hydraulic shaft. Pro-Mounts are ready-made specifically for this application but they are the "ONLY" off-the-shelf, pre-made strut mount option on the planet at the time of this posting specifically made to adapt UrS struts into the small-chassis Audi. Some here aleady run this setup on cars equipped with coilovers as I made them available to "you-know-who" thru "you-know-where" several years back for coilover applications. But to my knowledge no one in Europe has experimented with the large C-chassis UrS Bilsteins in the small-chassis Audi while retaining their OEM/aftermarket springs. And I think most here would be a little gape-jawed at the peformance-level and efficiencies this setup brings to bear without the draw-backs usually associated with more traditional, mid-level suspension upgades on "dual-use" cars. It just "might" be the most dynamic, best bang-for-the-buck option out there!

[Error404]

Very interesting - is anyone using this set-up over here?

Also worth considering getting the billies revalved to suit the H&R springs if they are being refurbed, since they are designed for use with stock springs, IIRC someone on the forum did this to good effect, can't remember who though