UrS6 - Failing Clutch Symptoms ?

[macspring]

Anyone whose clutch has worn out, what were the symptoms and speed of the decline ?

Thanks.

[UrS4boy]

Anyone whose clutch has worn out, what were the symptoms and speed of the decline ? Thanks.

Sorry. I was thinking somebody in the UK or Europe would respond by now.

But no. Here are some C4 UrS4/S6 symptoms:

1. Clutch slipping, i.e. revs go up faster under WOT acceleration than speed does, i.e. engine is spinning harder but the effort does not make it to the transmission.

2. Very heavy clutch. Think Arnold sized leg muscles needed. Next point of failure will be the clutch pedal snapping

[macspring]

I know, so did I. :cocoa:

The clutch isn't slipping.

But it's always felt old and heavy for the last two years since I got the car.

Is the clutch pedal not different on RHD cars. I'm aware of your warning re the LHD pedal 'snapping' if the clutch is old and heavy to operate. But looking up at the RHD it seems different?

Which you will not be able to check visually, you might double check if there are different part numbers for LHD and RHD C4 clutch pedals.

Thanks for your reply and input.

Drove it this morning, and it can be driven with care to avoid crunching, but it still won't go into reverse easily at all.

Thanks again.

[simon20vq]

Not 100% sure of urs clutch but it sounds like either the springs on the plate or on the cover are on the way out. Have you bleed the fluid ever?

[macspring]

Hi Simon,

Thanks for reply, yes it was bled yesterday, and the clutch slave cylinder replaced, no improvement.

To be honest, it feels like you've suggested where the 'finger' springs on the cover plate are losing their 'spring'. The feel of the clutch pedal in operation feels 'limp'

Just wondering if anyone else had these symptoms and found that a new clutch fixed it?

The clutch is original with 62k on it.

On a UrS6, the clutch disc does not have any small springs in it.

[macspring]

On later more modern VAG cars, the oem dual mass flywheel can 'break' / need replacing.

On a UrS6, there never seems to be any talk on here about the UrS6 flywheel needing replacement?

Or have I missed these instances?

Thanks.

[macspring]

Just to cross link this related thread.



http://www.s2forum.com/forum/showthr...685#post917685

[UrS4boy]

C4 UrS Clutch Pedal Failure Modes and replacement

Is the clutch pedal not different on RHD cars. I'm aware of your warning re the LHD pedal 'snapping' if the clutch is old and heavy to operate. But looking up at the RHD it seems different? Which you will not be able to check visually, you might double check if there are different part numbers for LHD and RHD C4 clutch pedals.

LHD C4 Clutch Pedal: 4A1721315

RHD C4 Clutch Pedal: 4A2721315B

RHD C4s have special pedal box that is subject to failure (and might make things feel weird in the clutch pedal department):



REFERENCE:
C4 UrS Clutch Pedal Failure Modes:

http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4s6/msgs/186276.phtml

C4 Clutch Pedal Replacement:

http://www.s2forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57138

[macspring]

Looked at my RHS C4 pedal assembly and in so far as one can without taking loads of bits out of the way to be able to view it properly, it doesn't appear to be cracked like in the photo in Dave's link. At least I'm praying it's not.

To get the heating / ventilation ducting pipes out of the way of be able to look at the clutch and brake pedal assembly properly, it seems to me that I'd have to take out the rear centre console, then the front centre console to expose where the two heating / ventilation pipes at the 'centre of the car end' are secured.

The clutch was always heavy and felt old for the last two years in spite of the low mileage, now 62k miles. So I'm a third of the way through the job of changing the clutch on the driveway.

I must be getting even older than I am as it is hard work, and even though nothing is rusty it's still fighting me at every turn.

Exhaust system is off, downpipe is out, transmission tunnel braces and heat shields are off, propshaft is out, driveshaft CVs are disconnected.

Still have a load to do, disconnect battery under the rear seat, starter out, etc etc. before I can start on the bell housing bolts that hold the gearbox to the block.

It's hard work cutting up spanners to customise them to get certain hard to reach bolts open etc. Getting in underneath the car and then back out again for a different spanner or ratchet, and then back is under the car again is hard going for me. YMMV.

Sorry about the whinging but it grinds you down. Will definitely be babying this new clutch, never want to do this job again.

I recall reading plenty of other threads where people seem to take the engine / gearbox out like as if I was changing the brake pads, and seem to take the job in their stride.

I figure recent long journey where the car would have be very hot may have finally cooked the springiness of the clutch cover plate's fingers, and made it feel like the clutch pedal wasn't fully pressed to the floor when it absolutely was. But either way I figure that it needs a new clutch which will make the clutch pedal nice an light for city driving.

Just need to get a clutch alignment tool.

Hoping big time that when the new clutch is in and done that there is not a problem with the clutch pedal housing.

[Vorsprung durch Technik]

I must be getting even older than I am as it is hard work, and even though nothing is rusty it's still fighting me at every turn.

Exhaust system is off, downpipe is out, transmission tunnel braces and heat shields are off, propshaft is out, driveshaft CVs are disconnected.

Still have a load to do, disconnect battery under the rear seat, starter out, etc etc. before I can start on the bell housing bolts that hold the gearbox to the block.

It's hard work cutting up spanners to customise them to get certain hard to reach bolts open etc. Getting in underneath the car and then back out again for a different spanner or ratchet, and then back is under the car again is hard going for me. YMMV.

I recall reading plenty of other threads where people seem to take the engine / gearbox out like as if I was changing the brake pads, and seem to take the job in their stride.

I sympathise with you Mac,getting under the car thinking you have what you need only to discover it's not there is tiresome to say the least.All the getting under and getting back up again is a right pain if your on your own. Those guys that do it in their stride have much better working conditions like a ramp on pit and are much younger than us. I removed the whole underside of my 2.8 quattro recently,everything...... so know what your on about. Some of it can be a pain yet some of it is easy. Best of luck mate with your endeavours,i'm sure it will be worth it mate.

[macspring]

It's only because I know it will be worth that it motivates me to do it.

Gearbox is out.

Just to help my karma, does any one know what the official number of hours Audi says a clutch change on a UrS6 takes ?

Thanks.

[Vorsprung durch Technik]

Gearbox removal and refitting on this one took 7 mins 10 secs.


https://www.facebook.com/tony.grised...0457406811787/


Only on Facebook chaps.

[chris]

c4

My clutch has been very heavy and stiff for the last 3 years, finally snapping the push rod on the master ,,
so new clutch . cannot believe how light it is and what strain must have been going through the system , oh and a 034 braided clutch hose,,

[Vorsprung durch Technik]

My clutch has been very heavy and stiff for the last 3 years, finally snapping the push rod on the master ,,
so new clutch . cannot believe how light it is and what strain must have been going through the system , oh and a 034 braided clutch hose,,

Chris,i posed that question last year i.e http://www.s2forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=74207 so following your comments above i think it's safe to say if anyone is suffering with a heavy clutch it means it's on the way out as you explained. Glad you got yours sorted and working beautifully. Thanks for sharing.

[macspring]

New clutch is is in and gearbox back in this evening with the help of macanmar, a legend. Thanks for your help I'd still be at it and even then it is very doubtful I'd have got it in any time soon.

So we bleed it and it still doesn't work.

The clutch pedal only comes back up three quarters of the way when compared to the brake pedal.

So we feel it must be something to do with the clutch pedal and how it acts on the clutch master cylinder, but with the plastic ventilation pipe and the black plastic cover in the way you can't see the pedal box properly or take it apart to see what's wrong.

So tomorrow I need to take out the rear centre console, then the front centre console and hopefully that will allow the black plastic cover to come out to visually expose the pedal box area.

It feels lie the pedal has slipped or 'rotated' slightly and therefore the full action needed to activate the clutch is not available from the clutch pedal even when the pedal pressed fully to the floor.

Never read any thread where someone had this type of fault ? The one time when you don't want to be the first person to have this.

Presumable it can't be the master cylinder ???

If anyone has any photos of the RHD C4 pedal box in situ and exposed on a car they were breaking, could they post a photo ?

Or if someone knows how the RHD C4 pedal works they might explain. Thanks. It seems to be different to the LHD clutch pedal.