Looking for an S2...

[faaaaast]

By the way, thanks for the info on the seals and other parts, etc. Sounds more reassuring. I was reading a thread on here last night about sealing the rear lights, didn't sound so bad. As you say, probably an idea to buy some spares now before they go out of fashion! Crazy of Audi to start discontinuing such major parts as coil packs on cars so relatively young though

James

[faaaaast]

Hi Jas, how's it going?

Thanks for the info on the S2 sedan conversion guys - I didn't know if they'd made a 5-cyl B4 Quattro or not. Converting the V6 would certainly be a challenge. I wouldn't do a 90 conversion - for one thing, the 80B4Q has RS2 rear suspension, which is bloody nice.

I'm not sure if you'd need to weld in engine mounts. I thought, from memory, that the engine iwas mounted to the subframe in the B4(?), in which case you'd just switch in a front subframe from a non-Q 5-cyl, the front end of the Q being otherwise the same and all?

It would be cooling, loom and other stuff like that which would have to have different mounting points, and lengths? I think the only way to do it would be to have a non-roadworthy S2 where the body is gone but all the engine/electronics are OK and literally have them side by side so you can see where the heck everything is supposed to fit...

Change the wheel hubs over to 5-stud (but again this would be on the donor car...). Well I think it'd certainly be possible, given a B4Q with the basics right, and a donor S2 with the mechanicals right...

Then get the front bumper, etc.

Would the gearbox/propshaft/rear diff on the 80 V6 handle the grunt of the S2 engine in it's unmodified guise? I know the basic 80 transmission is still an 01A type 5-speed. I don't think propshafts would be interchangeable, because of the difference in length of the chassis, but maybe someone can comment on this?

How would you get such major modifications insured and MOT'd? I was reading some annoying article recently about VOSA really clamping down on any mods at all, even afermarket wheels.

Having seen some pics of lovely S2 sedans, it's certainly a tempting project, I have to say.

Check out this S2 sedan:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-hlSQNTaF8

Cheers,
James

[Jas11n]

There were B4 80 quattro's here Paul mate, but AFAIK just the 2.8 V6.
I've had two of them.
Problem is as James mentions above, the different configuration of the V6 engine bay layout. You'd need to weld in 5 cylinder mounts just for starters.

Shame we didn't get the 80 competition, I reckon they'd have sold loads. Looks from the outside just like the S2 sedan.
Again, the same goes for the S2 sedan, they'd have sold a good number here.





TBH, I'd have had an S2 sedan over the Coupe if it had have been sold here.

[S2central.net]

A quick look at the V-pages in the family album confirms those B4 80 quattros exist (with ACE, ABK, NG, ABC, AAH and ABY engines) - in saloon and avant format.

It annoys me that Audi didnt do the first 1.9TDi engine (1Z) in 80 quattro format - that would be a great all weather commuting machine... Would half my fuel bills.

[S2central.net]

Good point Jason - methinks that Europe got B4 80 quattros though - like the S2 Sedan and that 16V quattro competition as a homologation special for German race series. Surely they are both B4 variants with the improved rear end... I bet they got some V6 quattros in B4 guise as well - lucky Germans in the local market.

Suppose its simple economics that only a subset of vehicles get the RHD treatment.


Paul

[Jas11n]

Hello James, making the jump then eh?

Boot seals still available, so are the door seals. Though they are expensive.

Leaks into the front of the car are more likely to be blocked sunroof drainholes/leaking bonnet cable grommet/poorly fitted replacement windscreen or an adjustment of the windows.

Boot leaks are, 99.9% of the time, leaking rear light clusters. Needs them removing and replacement of the non-setting sealant bead.

A few parts have become NLA, but nothing yet to stop the running of the car.
Bosch have recently discontinued the power output stages (2 x used for powering the direct fire coilpacks) used on the ABY and have no stock in the UK, but Audi haven't yet used all their stock. One day they will.
There are always alternatives, but if like me, you didn't want to dilute your car with a non standard bodge, then I'd be looking to buy parts like these while you still can and keep as spares. There are also secondhand parts available should all else fail.

IIRC, there wasn't a B4 80 5 cylinder "quattro" sold here in the UK. Certainly a FWD B4 80 with the 10v NG engine, but not in quattro guise. I could be wrong though. If there was, I've yet to see or hear of one in the UK..
That's usually why folks use the 90 quattro (either the 10v or 20v) as the basis for an S2 sedan looky-like. Problem with the 90 is the B3 rear end. To get it to look like the B4 will require hacking out the B3 arches and welding in B4's. Rear bumper is also different.
Converting the front to B4 is just a bolt on bolt off job.
Boot (in fact the floorpan and rear suspension complete) is different on the 90 to the B4 80.

[faaaaast]

Cheers James,
Yes we form the Isle Of Wight audi club
Did You write the minutes James?

Good to see you have joined, watch out it gets a little mad on here

Yeah, we all have to be slightly mad to even be here, right?!

I'm finding it hard to write the minutes - my mind has been befuddled by shiny S2 stuff

This is all your fault, of course. I was quite happy with my V6 until you showed up in that darned epitome of White Pearl effect Vorsprung Durch Technik!

James

[faaaaast]

Guys,

Yeah, I think the S2 sedan project is probably more complex than I want to get into right now (and too much initial dosh too). Very nice idea if you had the time and money though; the B4 chassis A80Q from chassis no 8CP has the RS2 rear suspension setup, which I gather was a great improvement over the S2; for road use anyway...

James and I had a chat about a few possibilities for restoring/rebuilding an S2, early stages but potentially interesting!

Chris, yeah I'd appreciate keeping me posted. Blue sounds nice! What kind of restoration work does it need to get it back to full glory? It would depend on the asking price and what needs doing really... do you have the original gauges too? Are your original wheels the Avus ones off the RS4, or the older five spokes? I have a set of brand spanking new Michelin Pilot Sport 225/45/17 tyres with 4-stud rims. I'd have to change the rims, but it would be nice to keep the tyres. Wasn't there a 17" rim for the A4 that was near as identical to the RS4 avus'? Would they fit, over big brakes too? Dunno what the offset was on the A4, from memory the S2 is an et37...

So, what's the deal with the door/boot seals on these cars guys? Someone told me today they're 'never dry' and that you can't get replacement seals any more... is this true, and if so what's the workaround - I don't fancy damp smelling/feeling car very much! Aren't they the same seals as the ordinary coupe? Or did they discontinue those seals too?

Only trying to get a feel for availability of potentially important parts long term before I make the jump to S2-dom; anyone have any idea of what's NLA?

James

[Chris5044]

I have a blue s2 ... If I purchase another s2 I have been looking at... then mine will be up for sale ... It does need a little bit of work to restore it to its former glory .. but the majoryity of the car is in mint condition for the year ... ask others on the forum.. prob one of the best examples of the 3b.

It does have a few mods but only slight, (chip, plasma blue display, scorpion 2.5" exhaust -- but looks close to the standard exhaust -- 18" rs4 rep wheels .... but I still have the originals and may plan to sell with just the originals)

-- will keep you posted

[S2central.net]

It would be better to start with an I5 engine for such a 80Q saloon project but maybe not by much as all the engine wiring is bespoke for the ABY anyhoo.

Some parts are indeed NLA, but if you can't legitimately find parts (or creative replacments) thru this forum and its contacts then you have no chance for such a project.

If time and money was on my side, I would like to build an S2 sedan just to be a bit different, but doing it properly for a factory looking finish would be a lot of money. Lets say 1500 for the original vehicle in usable condition, plus say 2500 for S2 running gear including loom & ECU, plus S2 bumpers, plus carbon trim, plus leather retrim, plus 1000 for a top notch bare metal respray plus all those miscellaneous things like wheels and tyres & decent brakes... I'd say you'd be out circa 7500 quid - more if the tuning bug hits you. Now you would have a damn fine S2 sedan lookalike for your trouble, but it would be easier to get a nice tidy S2 Coupe for less money.

Paul

[faaaaast]

Funnily, I had considered the S2 sedan conversion! I don't know just how complex a project that is though. I think if I did it, I'd still trade in my 80Q (not the FWD though as it's completely mint) and try to find a 5 pot B4 80/90Q with mint bodywork and nice interior as the basis for it. Am I right in thinking that if I did this, the engine mounting points, subframe and basic loom/cooling would all at least be in roughly the right places/lengths? A V6 is soooo different in many respects that would be a REALLY big project...

Where would you start with such a project, what would you need... How much can you get complete S2 engines and gearboxes, etc from?

Funnily enough, this post is coming after a scary couple of conversations with a few people telling me that S2/Coupe parts are fast becoming unavailable - door seals, distributors, to name a couple? As I understand it, the 80 chassis parts are still mainly out there, though, so if I sourced an ABY with a 6 speed box... hmm...

Any thoughts on this, as this would be a looooong term investment/ project for me. I don't mind spending money and doing rebuilds etc. but the parts have to be available in order to do this!

James

[terrybullwon]

Yep, I know James (terrybullwon), top guy. He uses the same mechanic/ workshop as me and we often bump into each other out there. I've already picked his brains about the S2 project and he's very helpful as usual... and yes, I'm sure he'll pop into this thread soon and take the p*ss!!

Cheers James,
Yes we form the Isle Of Wight audi club
Did You write the minutes James?

Good to see you have joined, watch out it gets a little mad on here

[Rusty]

Loving the fact that Paul isn't taking "no modifications" as an answer . This forum WILL make you want to modify your car, many have tried to resist....

[S2central.net]

Well .... Why not turn that A80Q into an S2 Sedan look-alike ? That might justify the time and cost in painting it - maybe - I dunno - just a thought. The S2 Sedan is sought after as none were brought to the UK and so few built in total. Not a small job though.

Paul

[Acidburn]

If I could pick up something for about £3500 or thereabouts where the basics are there and I can spend money gradually working my way through the car doing all needed bits I'd be a happy bunny.
Cheers,
James

There's a green avant that was on here today that looks lovely, quite tidy even tho your not overly keen or green it does look quite mean and moody

One other mod i'd recommend is to get the car chipped well worth it.