Steering weight and feel

[Rusty]

The steering on the S2 has always been a bit of a disappointment to me. It lets down the car as much as the wobbly stock chassis.

It's very sharp thanks to the quick rack and is nice for parking and the like but when on the move it's not got much connection to the tarmac and the only way to fathom the grip is to put more lock or more power on. It does seem to make more sense on track with a lot more loading, as the whole car ford IMO but even then it's pretty average. When I drive my Polo it's like a revelation, no PAS and despite its age there's a nice feeling of connection to the road and thus grip. It's shows the S2 up a lot and the Polo has plenty of inherent flaws in the chassis department.

My question is why is the S2 steering the way it is?

Is it over assisted?
Is it geometry?
Is it the design of a component or components?
Is it just Audi being Audi like the understeer and over officious ECU?

Moreover, what can be done to rectify the problem? The car is too heavy to ditch the PAS so this has to stay. Would some more carstor be the answer? A sorted chassis is obviously a good idea. Can the pressure on the PAS system be reduced to reduce assistance and thus give more connection to the road?

That's my starter for 10

[stiglet]

I think it's geometry. Have driven a coupe with no PAS and it felt horrible. No feel, just heavy.

There are many factors in steering geometry that give "feel". Mainly tracking, castor, and scrub radius. I notice that with a little toe out, the steering is more responsive. With my Azevs I get more feel for bumps and gradients, etc, due to them being 15 offset instead of the standard 35 (or whatever it is). Can't comment on what more castor would do, but in theory more castor might give you more feel for grip and direction. Not sure on that though.

All of these things you can change, so try it and see what happens. Then report back here

[S2central.net]

Very timely post... I also think my steering is too light and has insufficient 'feel' - sort of a vagueness... I hate it these cold / frosty days when you can't tell if that lightness is just normal or that you are rolling on something really slippy and nasty.

Pretty sure its more about geometry than power assistance though it would be nice to try some settings of less assistance at high speed - which is exactly what Servotronic attempted to do but it was still light - though great for parking.

Wish I had my own 4-post ramp - hate the thought of going to fast fit places for alignment - its always a ******... And its 100 quid a touch at Audi on their good alignment rig so thats not gonna work in the trial and error department - maybe should go there once for reference purposes onto factory settings - optimised for better toe and camber. Caster ain't adjustable without exotic top mounts or other trickery.

[Rusty]

How did servotronic work then? How is assistance governed? Is there a pressure regulating valve? Someone must have some better settings for 4 wheel alignment. Albert maybe? I can't believe that those who race these cars don't play with the geometry and steering a little...

[madwolf_Uk]

Who was it recently that was playing with the preload? on there rack recently Error maybe? Seem to remember reading it somewhere with some kind of results, or is the S2 setup different?

Having not driven mine enough, cant really comment on how mine feels, what about the size of wheels people are useing as well compared to standard, any affect on road feel maybe?

[Dingo]

I think youve got used to the polo, there a much lighter car with fantastic turn in and feel, I'm generaly pleased with the S2 but they are two completely different animals.

[Rusty]

...Having not driven mine enough...

Have you driven yours at all?

I think youve got used to the polo, there a much lighter car with fantastic turn in and feel, I'm generaly pleased with the S2 but they are two completely different animals.

This isn't a new thing (& the Polo is). The S2 has always felt a little flat and I want to know what can be done to improve it. I know it'll not be a scratch on an 800kg non PAS car but it could be better than stock, as with the chassis.

[S2central.net]

Yeah Gary... And steering it while it gets pushed up a car trailer doesn't count...

Sorry thats harsh, but the comedy value is irresistible !



Paul

[Rusty]

...thread descends into chaos...

[Fat Audi 80]

Odd, I think my steering is great. (I am running 245 / 40 / 17 tyres though... )

[S2central.net]

What alignment do you have on the front wrt toe and camber ?

[s2driveruk]

seriously, the difference between servotronic and the standard aby/rs2 setup that i now have on mine is a league apart. I actually think that when its setup right, its direct and accurate but has nowhere near the 'feel' of my pug 306 for example.

As far as i know one of the hydraulic pipes has a restrictor in it and playing with that would increase or decrease the level of overall assistance given to the sytem. The preload can help a little with extra weight but going too far means it starts to bind and won't self centre so the answer doesn't lay there IMO.

Now if you were to compare the feel on the old shape coupe versus ours, then there is a mahoosive difference but I think the greatest difference lies not with the steering components (as they are pretty similar) but actually the overall stiffness of the car, that boxy coupe just doesn't flex like the S2 does and I guess like in skiing, feedback from the edge of the ski is felt best when you have a thin sock, stiffer boot and less mass between you and the edge of the boot. So here, tyres are lower profile, bushes are stiffer, topmounts harder, dampers and springs uprated but fundamentally I think the chassis is the compromised bit...like too cushy a inner boot, there is too much wallow which neutralises the feedback.

Just my 2p

[madwolf_Uk]

See there i was trying to be constructive, and ya just had to have laugh at me!
Just waiting for Acidburn to join in now!!

For the record, yeah i drove it, once, home! (progress very soon though :mischeif

More seriously, tyre/rim size must have some influence on steering feel?

Rack preload as mentioned above as well?

[stiglet]

Smaller profile tyres will improve feel. Wider tyres... a bit more complicated. Some may argue it makes it worse, some may say its better. But by using a lower profile you definately get less "lag" from the steering. I notice it immediately everytime I change to my track wheels, I go from the standard 205/65 15" ( i think) to 235/40 17" and the difference is massive

[Rusty]

These old cars do flex, I remember being excited by my Recaro as I felt a lot more in touch with the car... unfortunately it just highlighted that the £00s I'd spent on OE bushings were nowhere near stiff enough for what I wanted