EXPERT HELP NEEDED!! ABY S2, Voilent jerking and juddering at 4k rpm

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  • paul.m
    S2Forum Fanatic
    • May 2010
    • 72
    • Home: United Kingdom Current: England

    #1

    EXPERT HELP NEEDED!! ABY S2, Voilent jerking and juddering at 4k rpm

    Yesterday when driving into work, I put my foot down and the car revved to 4000rpm, then violently starting juddering (to the point where it shook you in your seat). My first though was coil packs failing as these sorts of problems are usually ignition based.

    I spoke to a very knowledgeable friend of mine who said it sounds like the car is detonating, whereby the wastegate is stuck open and full boost is being supplied to the engine constantly. He added if this is the problem then I'd need to be very careful in making sure it doesn't do it again because it will destroy the pistons.

    On the drive home again I thought I'd try accelerating hard again just once to see if the problem was still there, I got to 3500rpm and braced for it to do the same thing, and nothing?! It revved cleanly through the rev range and pulled really well Dodgey wastegate perhaps? does anyone have any experience with the behaviour of an ABY engine when the coilpacks are failing?

    Thanks in advance for any help!
  • Error404
    Super Moderator
    • Mar 2007
    • 19789
    • Country: United Kingdom

    #2
    Wastegate would need to be stuck closed to casue that but afaik it fails safe so cannot happen. You can hear det quite clearly normally, sounds like someone crunching a crisp packet. Although on these engines the knock sensors would pick it up and limit advance and boost to save the engine. Does sounds like a large boost leak or ignition issues to me.
    Panthero Coupé quattro 20vt
    Indigo ABY coupé
    Imola B6 S4 Avant

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    • Sonic
      Administrator
      • Jul 2006
      • 5514
      • Home: United Kingdom Current: England

      #3
      Originally posted by paul.m
      Yesterday when driving into work, I put my foot down and the car revved to 4000rpm, then violently starting juddering (to the point where it shook you in your seat). My first though was coil packs failing as these sorts of problems are usually ignition based.
      Did you still have your foot welded to the bulkhead whilst it was "juddering"?

      Sounds like boost cutting.
      S2Forum.com Administrator

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      • GazzaG60
        S2Forum Freak
        • Mar 2007
        • 4133
        • Country: United Kingdom

        #4
        could be one of many things.

        lets work on the theory to start with.

        if the wastegate was stuck open then it would constantly bleed off exhaust gases. this would make boost hard to achieve as the gases that go to the turbo are bypasing it.

        if the gate was stuck closed then it would overboost at the turbo as the gate opens to attain and maintain the boost pressure.

        it could be spark, fuel, or air related. the motronic guru's will help here.

        id look at.

        knock sensors retarding timing.
        lambda probe not allowing clean transition to boost map.
        ait too high.
        water temps

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        • paul.m
          S2Forum Fanatic
          • May 2010
          • 72
          • Home: United Kingdom Current: England

          #5
          Originally posted by Sonic
          Did you still have your foot welded to the bulkhead whilst it was "juddering"?

          Sounds like boost cutting.
          Well i didn't have the pedal to the floor, it was probably half way down, I was just going to let it wind up along a nice long open straight. When it started juddering I suppose I just let off. It was so violent you couldn't have held your foot in the same position anyway. the more I think about it, the more confused i get

          Just went out in it this morning and it was fine.

          In response to the water temperature suggestion; I think the thermostat might be open as after driving it home last night (which is about 13 miles) I got home and the temperature gauge was about 55-60 degrees

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          • Sonic
            Administrator
            • Jul 2006
            • 5514
            • Home: United Kingdom Current: England

            #6
            13 miles is barely enough time to warm the coolant up, sounds normal to me.

            If the cutting is that violent, could be fuel cutting.

            Do you have a boost gauge installed?
            S2Forum.com Administrator

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            • Jamo
              Retired OG Mod
              • Mar 2004
              • 21750
              • Country: United Kingdom

              #7
              Sounds like over boost protection, check for boost leaks

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              • Le S2 Audi
                S2Forum Possessed
                • Jul 2009
                • 3805
                • Home: Scotland Current: England

                #8
                I had the same issue and it was a boost leak, one of the small vac pipes had snapped...

                Get yourself a boost test kit from Andy P... worth every penny...

                Also worth replacing all the small vac pipes...

                HTH

                sigpic

                New S2 - S8 & RS2 -RS6 Keyrings

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                • paul.m
                  S2Forum Fanatic
                  • May 2010
                  • 72
                  • Home: United Kingdom Current: England

                  #9
                  oh good to hear someone else had the same problem (i mean that in a nice way )

                  I don't currently have a boost gauge fitted going to make up some sort of braket to fit one into the centre air vent me thinks

                  I've ordered the piece of pipe and hose clips necessary to do the "MarkH" mod, I intend on replacing the boost hoses and auxillary hoses with silocon ones from Roose (unless anyone can offer me new a new Samco set?) Even if the problem arises again, atleast I can eliminate the likely-hood of it being a boost leak.

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                  • Le S2 Audi
                    S2Forum Possessed
                    • Jul 2009
                    • 3805
                    • Home: Scotland Current: England

                    #10
                    I got a nice Gauge mount Off Ebay.de...

                    Read this thread; http://www.s2forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43074

                    The buyer I used still has them listed here;

                    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Alu-Zusatzinst...e_Zubeh%C3%B6r

                    I ordered a black one with Silver OOOO...

                    HTH

                    sigpic

                    New S2 - S8 & RS2 -RS6 Keyrings

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                    • Rusty
                      Super Moderator
                      • Jun 2004
                      • 18953
                      • Country: United Kingdom

                      #11
                      Sounds like the most common S2 complaint - as Jamo said - over boost protection. Usually due to an air leak on the high pressure side, can also be caused by a mis-reading MAF due to dirt or liquid on the MAF.

                      Nearly all of us have been here, it's a right pain but once you sort it the car will fly as a boost leak means that even when it runs 'normally' you're still losing power.

                      AndyP is the man for boost leak test kits.
                      Cheers'en, AndyC
                      1994 ABY Coupe - Projekt Alpinweiss

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                      • Jamo
                        Retired OG Mod
                        • Mar 2004
                        • 21750
                        • Country: United Kingdom

                        #12
                        I experienced it once when a hose blew off on a dual carriage way ( the day the car was being taken off the road for the engine swap ) it's violent and it doesn't half give you the willies

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                        • driftin jo
                          S2Forum Fiend
                          • Sep 2007
                          • 2222
                          • Country: United Kingdom

                          #13
                          Mine has done this twice before and it was a simple fix as it was the MAF wire connector , just pulled it off and put in back on a few times and it was fine for another six months . I cleaned it properly the last time and it has not done it since (18 months and counting ) .

                          the first time it did it I checked everything for leaks and found none , spent hours on it and then cleaned the connector and it was fine I could of fixed it in 30 seconds ! I would check this first as you will be pissed off if you spend hours/ days looking for leaks and eventually find it is this.

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                          • newsh
                            S2Forum Obsessed
                            • Aug 2003
                            • 16226
                            • Country: United Kingdom

                            #14
                            Yup


                            S2 Coupe 3B Project


                            Ur quattro restoration

                            S2 Avant

                            Boost is the new rock and roll!
                            sigpic

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                            • rj scotty
                              S2Forum Fiend
                              • May 2006
                              • 2195
                              • Home: United Kingdom Current: England

                              #15
                              Wiggle the MAF connector, it's over-boost protection cutting in on a false alarm. if you have vag com it will show the the over boost protection incident as a fault. BTDT
                              sigpic
                              "For what you spent on that you could have brought a new car"
                              BUT I DON'T WANT A NEW CAR!

                              1995 S2 Avant, Volcano Black
                              1982 VW Golf Mk1, primer yellow, will be finished one day, maybe.
                              2003 VW T4 long nose X pack, (has become project)

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