a man in a shed production

[here2learn]

After nearly a year of inane questions cocky remarks, poor spelling and punctuation.

I feel it is time to say thank you for all the advice i have received so far

I hope i can now begin to contribute to this forum


So as i have mentioned my aim to achieve 200mph plus with this car.

Due to my lack of knowledge this is going to be a hard goal to achieve but i am adaptable AND enjoy turbulence in my day to day life. variety is the spice of life apparently.

i am far from wealthy but i love making something from nothing.



so far with this car i have replaced the clutch,slave cylinder,cam belt,water pump,crank pulley then had to pull the engine out again as due the the heat generated from a slipping clutch the starter motor ring gear had become detached from the flywheel. A new starter motor followed shortly along with new dial faces



As i have never approached a project as complex before i have had made a few decisions based on impulse and had to reign them back in to think about it properly.



so at this point in time i have my car completely striped going from this


to a bare interior i have placed an order for the b pillar hoop a pillar bends with the brace across the top of the screen with the intention of making the rest of the roll cage myself as this is all from straight bars.

the guy who had this car over 10 years ago owns powerspeed an exhaust and roll cage manufacturer who also works with my friend from saxon motorsport who build and race a fleet of mk2 golfs.

he had previously striped all the tar from the inside floor pan installed a viper chip from Germany any info on this would be appreciated. the battery has been moved into the boot and he fitted a 2.5" mandrel bent straight through exhaust on a stock back box.

it registers 1.7 bar of boost with the gauge i have fitted with an estimated 280 ish bhp which is easily more power than i need when learning to handle this car at high speeds

he had a shell there to build the cage from and after thinking this time have agreed a price to buy the shell from him as this will enable me to build this car from the ground up and also leave me with a spare shell.

so when the shell arrives around mid jan i can begin to strip all underseal,seam sealer and any un wanted steel from the inside. any advice or suggestions on what i can do to improve and stiffen the shell and enable me to strip as much as possible from it would be apreciated.

[UrS4boy]

Not wanting to deter you from your goal but 200 mph probably will require at least 700 peak hp, i.e. nothing short of a hugely built engine (rods, stroker, etc), with a massive turbo, injectors and fuel pump. Probably dry sumped as well to maintain oil pressure at at least 8000 RPM.

With a 6 spd CRB transmission (with 0.71:1 6th and 4.11:1 final drive) 202.6 mph can be achieved at 8000 RPM with stock diameter wheel/tires, e.g. 24.86 inches (225/50/16 tires). The problem is this will likely be *after* peak power (unless the engine is capable of say 9000 RPM). Horsepower requirements to achieve a given speed increase at approximately equal cube of the velocity. For example, if the stock engine at 230 DIN hp was capable of 150 mph, to get to 200 mph you would need about 545 hp at the point of the intersection of the RPM (speed) and HP curves below (((200/150)^3)*230 hp = 545 hp).

In contrast, a nicely RS2'd ABY or AAN with extra software making around 365 hp should be capable of about 175 mph (((175/150)^3)*230 hp = 365 hp). (Maybe)

Good luck.

[prj]

I don't think you quite need 700hp to reach 200mph.
You just need a very long stretch of road

Also, dry sump is completely unnecessary, what is needed is a gearbox with correct ratios.
We have a couple UrS6 avants here reaching 200mph using HX40, 2.5L strokers and the right gearboxes (hint: 2.5 TDI AEL).
They do this in 1 mile from a standing start...

If you have all the road and time in the world, then it's a lot easier. An AAN with a GT35R/0.82, 7A camshafts, dropped compression ratio, strong conrods and appropriate tuning can accomplish this with 98 RON fuel.

[Tonks4x4]

Them figures look about right, johnnyboy manages 177mph on 2 in dependant satnav's with a rs2 hybrid coupe

[Acidburn]

Also, dry sump is completely unnecessary, what is needed is a gearbox with correct ratios.
We have a couple UrS6 avants here reaching 200mph using HX40, 2.5L strokers and the right gearboxes (hint: 2.5 TDI AEL).
They do this in 1 mile from a standing start...

What power do you reckon a tdi would need to do anything close to that?

[prj]

What power do you reckon a tdi would need to do anything close to that?

I was referring to those cars having gearbox from TDI, the engines are still 20VT

[Acidburn]

I was referring to those cars having gearbox from TDI, the engines are still 20VT

Yes mate but i'm just curious if anyone's got a decent top speed out of a tdi?

[driftin jo]

they don't rev high enough

[UrS4boy]

I don't think you quite need 700hp to reach 200mph.
You just need a very long stretch of road.

Following your theory, an infinitely long road will allow you to achieve infinite speed, independent of hp. You are not digesting the diagram: As drag and rolling resistance increase, hp will peak and then fall off. At some point, less than infinite speed, an equilbrium is reached when the hp being provided is exactly equal to that required to overcome drag and rolling resistance. There is no further hp available for acceleration. You have achieved top speed for the car and conditions the car is in. Not a question of needing a longer road to go faster. You are just done.

How much hp are the UrS6 2.5L avants using HX40s turbos making?

[here2learn]

i was looking at a2.7 bi turbo box dsy i think as there is an of the shelf 6th gear from the usa which will allow 230mph.

i have roughly calculated with my friend 600hp 1100kg and an airfield

but theory and practical application are very different

i have given myself 8 years to do this as the car in nearly 22 years old and a 30 year old car hitting 200mph has a pleasant ring to it

not only that i have a lot to learn not only building this car but being able to drive it aswell

[prj]

Following your theory, an infinitely long road will allow you to achieve infinite speed, independent of hp. You are not digesting the diagram: As drag and rolling resistance increase, hp will peak and then fall off. At some point, less than infinite speed, an equilbrium is reached when the hp being provided is exactly equal to that required to overcome drag and rolling resistance. There is no further hp available for acceleration. You have achieved top speed for the car and conditions the car is in. Not a question of needing a longer road to go faster. You are just done.

I am aware of that, which is why I said to use the TDI gearbox. That way you are still in the power band even at 200mph. The spec I listed (plus the gearbox) will make 200 mph with about 600 hp at the crank.

How much hp are the UrS6 2.5L avants using HX40s turbos making?

Need to look at dyno graphs, but those are probably closer to 650-700 at the wheels if I am not mistaken.

Yes mate but i'm just curious if anyone's got a decent top speed out of a tdi?

You would need a custom gearbox, and lots of displacement. You can make 1000hp on a diesel, you will just need something like 5 liters of displacement and 5-6 bar boost to do it.

[driftin jo]

i was looking at a2.7 bi turbo box dsy i think as there is an of the shelf 6th gear from the usa which will allow 230mph.

i have roughly calculated with my friend 600hp 1100kg and an airfield

but theory and practical application are very different

i have given myself 8 years to do this as the car in nearly 22 years old and a 30 year old car hitting 200mph has a pleasant ring to it

not only that i have a lot to learn not only building this car but being able to drive it aswell

No need to reduce weight, not worth bothering with for high speed run (unless you planning on doing it up hill)
The weight of you car will not make any difference as the biggest coefficient by far
is wind drag.

[UrS4boy]

No need to reduce weight, not worth bothering with for high speed run (unless you planning on doing it up hill)The weight of you car will not make any difference as the biggest coefficient by far is wind drag.

Agree. Weight and hp are acceleration-related. Drag/rolling resistance and hp are top speed-related.

[UrS4boy]

I am aware of that, which is why I said to use the TDI gearbox. That way you are still in the power band even at 200mph. The spec I listed (plus the gearbox) will make 200 mph with about 600 hp at the crank. Need to look at dyno graphs, but those are probably closer to 650-700 at the wheels if I am not mistaken.

A C4 Tdi transmission with 0.56:1 6th gear needs 6250 RPM to hit 200 mph with 4.11:1 differentials and 225/50/16 wheel/tires.

Dmitri: I have been talking crank hp. You seem to be talking both wheel and crank.

[prj]

A C4 Tdi transmission with 0.56:1 6th gear needs 6250 RPM to hit 200 mph with 4.11:1 differentials and 225/50/16 wheel/tires.

Correct. Now guess where the GT35R makes peak power with 7A cams

Dmitri: I have been talking crank hp. You seem to be talking both wheel and crank.

Every time I spoke about hp, I specified crank or wheel. I quoted wheel numbers for those cars, because the dyno they go to only measures whp, or more exact wkw.
As for the GT35R setup - I talked about crank hp, because that's what I've measured it in, I don't remember how much whp it made.